Has anyone noticed a surge in interest in people setting up darkrooms?

[Paul Howell]

Hard to say, most folks buy used enlargers, Ebay, Shopgoodwill, C list, word of mouth, no one is tracking sales, eventually sales will show up in paper and chemistry.

 

[AgX]

“They’re giving them away,” I was assured. “I found mine lying in a trash pile,” another averred. Instead I scoured ebay and craigslist for about a half year looking for something under $300...

Both is true. There are two worlds apart concerning darkroom stuff.

 

[btaylor]

The Craigslist “complete darkroom $50” ads are gone. I bought a Beseler 4x5 enlarger some years back through cl and they were begging me to take everything else as well- but it duplicated gear I already had. Little did I know there would be an uptick in interest- I just wanted to get everything I wanted before the stuff went to the landfill.

 

[Bob Carnie]

I see a huge surge in digital negs allowing people to make wet prints... as well as wet plate photographers...
Silver darkrooms not so much

 

[PFGS]

The Craigslist “complete darkroom $50” ads are gone. I bought a Beseler 4x5 enlarger some years back through cl and they were begging me to take everything else as well- but it duplicated gear I already had. Little did I know there would be an uptick in interest- I just wanted to get everything I wanted before the stuff went to the landfill.

Yep - I hit 4 or 5 of these in a row, CL and yard sales, eight or so years back - for maybe $200 total, ended up with a mountain of gear from which to pick and choose. One sale was the entire contents, except enlargers, of a mid-size University darkroom. - $40. Haven't seen anything like that at all recently. There was a similar wave with LPs and turntables in the late 90s/early 00s.

But is it an uptick in interest, or just that all the old timers who had junk to get rid of, have done so?

 

[Auer]

FWIW, my local Mom&Pop camera store told me they have sold and developed a lot more Film in the last 6 months than usual.
They are actaullay busy, and I buy and have them develop some of my stuff as I appreciate having them around.

 

[MattKing]

A search of the Vancouver Craigslist today using the search term "darkroom" doesn't yield as much as it once did, and the prices range from very good to extraordinarily high, but the two Saunders/LPL 670 XL enlargers - one condenser, the other VCCE light source - for $60 each are a pretty good deal.
The Hewes 120 reels for $20 are pretty good too.
All prices $CDN

 

[Sirius Glass]

FWIW, my local Mom&Pop camera store told me they have sold and developed a lot more Film in the last 6 months than usual.
They are actaullay busy, and I buy and have them develop some of my stuff as I appreciate having them around.

Samys has business has picked up too.

 

[Henning Serger]

I'm on social media and I just noticed a surge in interest in people starting darkrooms. I get a sense that most of are under 30 years old. Prices of darkroom equipment has gone up quite a bit. 10 years ago, people were throwing away enlargers and now more people seem to covet them. I dumpster dove a free 120 color enlarger and 5 years ago, I bought a darkroom set up with a Beseler 45MXT, 16x20 print washer, 16x20 bladed easer and other accessories at my thrift store for $100. Is what's old is new again?

I can give you an answer which is based on market data, as one part of my business is market analysis of the photo market, including the traditional film photography market.
The situation is, that
- We've seen a significant increase in film sales in the last years.
- With a little bit delay also photo chemistry and equipment for developing films at home has started a very significant increase; film processing at home is becoming very popular in the group of young(er) photographers (many new products in this area has also helped a lot as sales numbers of these new products demonstrates)
- With optical enlarging / making prints the situation is different: In the last 1-2 years we've seen a process which would be best described as the beginning of a stabilisation process. So now we have in that area a situation similar to film 4-6 years ago. So darkroom printing is what we economists call a "Spätindikator" (late indicator, an indicator which is lagging behind). That is not surprising at all:
The young film beginners have of course first used film and got it developed and scanned / printed at prof. labs. Then they have discovered that film processing at home is easy, high quality, cheap and fun.
And now some of them who are meanwhile very comfortable with processing films by themselves are discovering that film has even much more to offer concerning final quality and creativity / joy: Making your own enlargements.
That youngest / latest market development has now of course to be further supported and strenghtened. There remains a lot to do in that area. But the latest signs from the market are definitely encouraging, and showing that further success is certainly possible.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[David Brown]

I bought a Beseler 4x5 enlarger some years back through cl and they were begging me to take everything else as well- but it duplicated gear I already had. Little did I know there would be an uptick in interest- I just wanted to get everything I wanted before the stuff went to the landfill.

I had the same experience about 2008. A local pro had gone digital and I got his entire darkroom (everything but the room itself ) for $200. Included a Beseler 4x5 with the computerized color head; which I sold (the head) and bought the more "analog" 45S color head. There was a sink, safelights, timers, tanks and reels and a ton of old, mostly opened paper and chemistry. I took what I wanted, leaving a lot of, well, junk. I sold a couple of the enlarger lenses and some other things and got my $200 back! Now, everyone locally wants $300 for a Vivitar enlarger with no lens.

 

[miha]

The only reliable data for me wold be from Foma, Harman, and Adox (or their vendors, of course) in regard to paper sales to see if there is any upward trend.

 

[David Brown]

I can give you an answer which is based on market data, ...

And now some of them who are meanwhile very comfortable with processing films by themselves are discovering that film has even much more to offer concerning final quality and creativity / joy: Making your own enlargements.
That youngest / latest market development has now of course to be further supported and strenghtened. There remains a lot to do in that area. But the latest signs from the market are definitely encouraging, and showing that further success is certainly possible.

Best regards,
Henning

I hope you are right.

 

[PFGS]

The young film beginners have of course first used film and got it developed and scanned / printed at prof. labs. Then they have discovered that film processing at home is easy, high quality, cheap and fun.
And now some of them who are meanwhile very comfortable with processing films by themselves are discovering that film has even much more to offer concerning final quality and creativity / joy: Making your own enlargements.

One thing that I see surprisingly often in Reddit photo forums and other venues than slant young, is people not only jumping right into C41 and E6 developing, sometimes before they've even done B&W, but a fair bit of RA-4 color printmaking, much of which looks pretty good.

 

[Henning Serger]

I hope you are right.

I hope so, too .
But I am in that specific business for about 15 years now. And so far my work has been very accurate over all the years.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Henning Serger]

One thing that I see surprisingly often in Reddit photo forums and other venues than slant young, is people not only jumping right into C41 and E6 developing, sometimes before they've even done B&W, but a fair bit of RA-4 color printmaking, much of which looks pretty good.

Well, to get perfect results is even much easier with C-41 and E6 home processing compared to BW. Especially if you are using high-quality equipment like the JOBO rotation processors.
The reason is quite simple: C-41 and E6 are standardised processes. And if you work according to the standard process and manual, you will get perfect results.

It is more tricky in BW:
To get really perfect results you have to first make tests to standardise and optimise your own process and adjust it to the further imaging chain for the following positive process. Best is to evaluate the characteristic curve of your film-developer combination and adjust exposure, processing time, developer dilution and agitation rhythm to get optimal film speed and tonality fitting the following positive process (enlarger type, scanner type, used paper).

Best regards,
Henning

 

[PFGS]

Well, to get perfect results is even much easier with C-41 and E6 home processing compared to BW. Especially if you are using high-quality equipment like the JOBO rotation processors.
The reason is quite simple: C-41 and E6 are standardised processes. And if you work according to the standard process and manual, you will get perfect results.

It is more tricky in BW:
To get really perfect results you have to first make tests to standardise and optimise your own process and adjust it to the further imaging chain for the following positive process. Best is to evaluate the characteristic curve of your film-developer combination and adjust exposure, processing time, developer dilution and agitation rhythm to get optimal film speed and tonality fitting the following positive process (enlarger type, scanner type, used paper).

Best regards,
Henning

Though I doubt they have JOBOs (many are repurposing sous vide temperature controllers) what amazes me more than the C-41/E6 is the color printing in RA-4; I was always under the impression that that involved a lengthy process of fidgeting with color balance in addition to the usual darkroom variables, plus the added fun of working in total darkness. But if I'm wrong, perhaps I'll give it a try myself.

 

[Henning Serger]

Though I doubt they have JOBOs (many are repurposing sous vide temperature controllers)

Well, a significant number is using used JOBO processors. One of the reasons why these machines have increased in price on the used market very much in the last years.
And new ones have increasing demand for years as well.
And you are right: Sous vide and its derivate from CineStill have become very popular for color film processing. I have numbers from distribitors and the CineStill machines are selling very well.

what amazes me more than the C-41/E6 is the color printing in RA-4; I was always under the impression that that involved a lengthy process of fidgeting with color balance in addition to the usual darkroom variables, plus the added fun of working in total darkness. But if I'm wrong, perhaps I'll give it a try myself.

It is not so difficult. There are some techniques making it relatively easy.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[PFGS]

Well, a significant number is using used JOBO processors.

The folks I'm talking about, late teens to mid 20s, I've never seen mention JOBOs in any way except to lament those prices. I've seen more people in that demographic using motorized LEGOs and Arduino contraptions to process film. Why _are_ JOBOs so pricey new? There really isn't all that much to them.

 

[Henning Serger]

Why _are_ JOBOs so pricey new? There really isn't all that much to them.

Your assessment is wrong. There is quite a lot of technology and production know-how used in them. I am using one by myself, and I have seen the production in the JOBO factory many times and talked to the engineers. A chinese company tried to copy them and totally failed. Because they don't have the needed detail knowledge of designing and producing such a machine.
And I consider them very price-worthy: If you handle them properly and with care, you get a machine running for 30-35 years (maybe even more). So the amount of money per year is very low and negligible.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[MattKing]

I often wonder if people new to this would feel more comfortable with the price of JOBO equipment if they looked more like an iPhone or a Tesla.

 

[PFGS]

Your assessment is wrong. There is quite a lot of technology and production know-how used in them. I am using one by myself, and I have seen the production in the JOBO factory many times and talked to the engineers. A chinese company tried to copy them and totally failed. Because they don't have the needed detail knowledge of designing and producing such a machine.
And I consider them very price-worthy: If you handle them properly and with care, you get a machine running for 30-35 years (maybe even more). So the amount of money per year is very low and negligible.

Best regards,
Henning

I often wonder if people new to this would feel more comfortable with the price of JOBO equipment if they looked more like an iPhone or a Tesla.

Fair enough, I'd totally accept that there's more to them than is obvious, and they do seem to last forever. But some of it is optics, as Matt suggests. I don't know that it needs to look like an iPhone but to the naive eye, it does look a lot like a plastic tube with a heater and a motor... a starting point capable of precision, no doubt, but not exactly proclaiming it.

 

[Minolta93]

I can give you an answer which is based on market data, as one part of my business is market analysis of the photo market, including the traditional film photography market.
The situation is, that
- We've seen a significant increase in film sales in the last years.
- With a little bit delay also photo chemistry and equipment for developing films at home has started a very significant increase; film processing at home is becoming very popular in the group of young(er) photographers (many new products in this area has also helped a lot as sales numbers of these new products demonstrates)
- With optical enlarging / making prints the situation is different: In the last 1-2 years we've seen a process which would be best described as the beginning of a stabilisation process. So now we have in that area a situation similar to film 4-6 years ago. So darkroom printing is what we economists call a "Spätindikator" (late indicator, an indicator which is lagging behind). That is not surprising at all:
The young film beginners have of course first used film and got it developed and scanned / printed at prof. labs. Then they have discovered that film processing at home is easy, high quality, cheap and fun.
And now some of them who are meanwhile very comfortable with processing films by themselves are discovering that film has even much more to offer concerning final quality and creativity / joy: Making your own enlargements.
That youngest / latest market development has now of course to be further supported and strenghtened. There remains a lot to do in that area. But the latest signs from the market are definitely encouraging, and showing that further success is certainly possible.

Best regards,
Henning

This seems about right to me. I'm 20 and I got my first camera a few years ago, and I've always gone to a photo lab to have it developed. Lately I had taken an interest in developing on my own, but I'm out of a job so I can't afford it. I had in fact budgeted to spend $150 on developing things while I still had a job. I've had to forget about it for now, but when I get back to work it'll be one of the things I spend my money on. And from there going to a true darkroom setup isn't such a large step.

 

[Ariston]

I have collected everything I need to set up my first darkroom, but am waiting for my guest room to be free (it will be a few more weeks). I am not young, though...

 

[Sirius Glass]

The folks I'm talking about, late teens to mid 20s, I've never seen mention JOBOs in any way except to lament those prices. I've seen more people in that demographic using motorized LEGOs and Arduino contraptions to process film. Why _are_ JOBOs so pricey new? There really isn't all that much to them.

The Jobos are correctly priced. They are worth the cost because they provide consistent results for black & white as well as color. When I develop 4"x5" negative, they are consistently always great and without scratches nor streaks. Some things are worth the price.

Get rid of your phone and you will easily be able to afford a Jobo, tanks, reels, and drums.

 

[PFGS]

The Jobos are correctly priced. They are worth the cost because they provide consistent results for black & white as well as color. When I develop 4"x5" negative, they are consistently always great and without scratches nor streaks. Some things are worth the price.

Get rid of your phone and you will easily be able to afford a Jobo, tanks, reels, and drums.

Hence my mea cupla above? But I'm ready to trade my ancient, cracked, weak battery, runs too hot to hold iPhone 6 with dead-minimal plan for your Jobo, any time.

I've been able to afford a Jobo for a decade or two now, thanks, but my occasional engagement with their marketing materials has never quite convinced me, despite my membership in their key demographic - that may be largely about me, but perhaps not entirely. Meanwhile I get consistent development with my old steel hand-tanks just fine - that's always been the least of my photographic problems.