Good point, I forgot that, I'm so used to associating Harman with Ilford-branded great B&W film.
Eh?In the rest of the world, most people don't even know what you are talking about when you refer to "Ilford Black and White film".
Most of the world doesn't even know what photographic film is, and of those who do, most of them don't know there is a black and white version.
I don't follow the obsession with distinguishing between these two names. We know (I think?) that it's only a legal/contractual nicety that 'they' are selling Phoenix under the brand Harman instead of Ilford. The actual physical people, the machines they used, and the buildings they were standing in are the same as the ones that make the Ilford films, so does it make any difference which we, or the man from Ilford, say?
I don't follow the obsession with distinguishing between these two names. We know (I think?) that it's only a legal/contractual nicety that 'they' are selling Phoenix under the brand Harman instead of Ilford. The actual physical people, the machines they used, and the buildings they were standing in are the same as the ones that make the Ilford films, so does it make any difference which we, or the man from Ilford, say?
On Photrio, a bunch of people insist on using Ilford to refer to things that quite properly should be referred to as Harman.
In the rest of the world, most people don't even know what you are talking about when you refer to "Ilford Black and White film".
Photrio is not the target market.
Because everything else they do is so good. Harman has set standards for high quality for quite some time. By producing an inferior quality colour film they are damaging their brand.
By hey, perhaps that's the future!
Most people when they see my film cameras ask, "can you still get film?" Black and white would probably blow their mind that it's even still available.
I don't follow the obsession with distinguishing between these two names. We know (I think?) that it's only a legal/contractual nicety that 'they' are selling Phoenix under the brand Harman instead of Ilford. The actual physical people, the machines they used, and the buildings they were standing in are the same as the ones that make the Ilford films, so does it make any difference which we, or the man from Ilford, say?
I don't follow the obsession with distinguishing between these two names. We know (I think?) that it's only a legal/contractual nicety that 'they' are selling Phoenix under the brand Harman instead of Ilford. The actual physical people, the machines they used, and the buildings they were standing in are the same as the ones that make the Ilford films, so does it make any difference which we, or the man from Ilford, say?
Here's what Harman said to me: "Hopefully, you have picked up from the information released so far that this product will be under the HARMAN Photo brand and not the ILFORD Photo brand for reasons that will become clear."
Reading the above again it is as if I was being told that it will become obvious. Well it hasn't as yet become clear to me why Phoenix is under the Harman brand
Yes I can speculate like others as to Phoenix is under the Harman brand but I can't recall seeing anything so far from Harman that makes it clear
pentaxuser
If that was a reply to you before 1 December, i.e. before Harman had announced what the new product was going to be, they may simply have been referring to the fact that when the mystery product would be revealed on 1 December to be colour film, it would then be clear why it could not be under the Ilford name - because Harman only have the rights to use Ilford for black & white film.
Harman assumes everybody have seen and read their Ilford trademark licence agreement?
I doubt that as I imagine the agreement would be confidential.
I assume however that Harman will assume that those interested people such as pentaxuser will have an awareness that Harman can only use the Ilford name for black and white products, for instance it was mentioned in an earlier thread on Ilford Color Negative Film, for example this post https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/ilford-color-negative-film.200228/post-2698046 and it was also mentioned in speculation as to what was coming in the Harman Photo cyptic announcement/teaser post.
The fact that they cannot do the same with colour film - because their license to use the name "Ilford" doesn't permit that
When the old Ilford Imaging went into a version of receivership in 2005, it essentially ceased to be a going concern.
The employees were facing loss of their employment, the building and equipment at Mobberley (either owned by Ilford Imaging or leased by them - I'm not sure) was on the edge of being sold away, and the business that could rightfully continue under the name "Ilford" was on the verge of extinction.
Some of the former employees got together and set up an entirely new entity called Harman Technology - the name being a homage to the original founder of the former Ilford.
Those former employees convinced the receiver to sell them a bunch of things, which included a license to use the "Ilford" name for certain products. They negotiated a medium term lease of the former Ilford building and fixed equipment - they don't own that, they lease it. They offered employment to many of the now unemployed former Ilford employees. They purchased some existing inventory of constituent parts needed for production of Ilford branded black and white photographic product. They also purchased from the receiver some existing inventory of Ilford branded product - both manufactured by Ilford Imaging, and manufactured by others and owned and marketed by Ilford Imaging.
Other entities bought parts of the rest of Ilford Imaging from the receiver, and either carried on those other parts as different businesses under the name Ilford Imaging or started new businesses that referenced Ilford.
Harman Technology is a new and separate business from the Ilford that nearly went away completely in 2005. They have worked hard to remain associated in the public's mind with the former Ilford, but they aren't that entity - they simply purchased some really well cherry-picked parts of it.
However, the ‘other Ilford’ has already muddied the waters a bit with keeping the Ilford name strictly associated with monochrome.
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