Harman Photo cryptic announcement/teaser
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Yes, I know, but in previous Instagram Live sessions (which I’ve watched somewhat regularly) he has talked about getting a cease and desist from “a company named after a mountain” and that that set him back significantly. The money seems like a bigger issue to me…
Nice one
If I announced a film product called Alford HB5 I should expect a letter from Ilford/Harman telling me to pick different name. Unless you're referring to something else.
I heard that slide films are easier to make than negative films. The only thing standing in the way is that it's E-6 processing that the end user needs instead of regular C-41. But if Harman figured they could make a slide film more easily, maybe they partnered with various labs who will process the film, and maybe it comes with a Harman mailer, or something like that. Most people don't even know the difference anyway, so to them it'd basically be the same. Take photos, send in the film, and get scans back.
when I shoot slide film, I want the SLIDES back.. Scans are optional.
I don't think so. With neg films the overall sensitivity and colour balance isn't critical because correction occurs during printing. With reversal, both the sensitivity and the colour needs to be spot on.
They probably care more about the millions of people who just shoot it and get scans than the comparatively few people who know what they're doing. And being partnered with labs wouldn't preclude people who want their film back from getting it.
I meant in terms of how many layers are needed, I would guess that this is one of the hard parts for Harman seeing as color negative requires so many more layers than B&W.
Harman's partner for Harman Lab US, The Darkroom in San Clemente, California, do E-6 processing, so something like the processing mailer could be possible. I don't know what it would take for Harman Lab UK to start offering E-6 processing.
And even if it is not like it once was, there are still quite a few labs that offer E-6 processing in the United States, Great Britain, and Europe. Maybe not a local lab, but a number of options for mail-in film service. I don't know the situation outside of those regions.
Up-thread it has been stated that E6 film is a little easier to manufacture than C41....but while we might be happy to see more E6 film of good quality, that's not what the audience for this social media campaign seem to want....nor are Kodak or Fuji having difficulty supplying their E6 films. There *is* a gap for a faster E6 film for sure, but it's one of those "niche within a niche within a niche" products. I can't see it paying off for Harman if they've invested any kind of significant sum on this. The market, and money, is in amatuer 200 or 400ISO C41 films in 35mm....and if they achieve a good reputation and good sales in that they might then branch out into 120 and other speeds.
My favoured local lab near home doesn't do E6 but can send off to a small lab that does....or I can send there directly. I do have a reasonable choice of E6 labs but that requires mailing my films at considerable cost (Royal Mail price hikes in recent years really do add up) compared to walking into the shop with the mini-lab that does C41. Notably, what was "Snappy Snaps" near my workplace has now reopened after a four year closure as an independent photo lab complete with mini-lab and both Kodak & Ilford film on sale. I might pop in soon to get to know them and see what services they offer.
Bellamy saying "it's not what you think" is intriguing though. As for his hatred of Fuji, their lack of transparency regarding their future intentions of 35mm and 120 film production seems to really anger some people. There's at least one UK film retailer who regularly bashes Fuji for this too, to the point that I believe they actually hate Fuji. But they're just being Japanese....and Japanese business culture really isn't anything like as open as American, British or European - and even we have our trade secrets. I'd never expect Fuji to actually be forthcoming about their future intentions.
My favoured local lab near home doesn't do E6 but can send off to a small lab that does....or I can send there directly. I do have a reasonable choice of E6 labs but that requires mailing my films at considerable cost (Royal Mail price hikes in recent years really do add up) compared to walking into the shop with the mini-lab that does C41. Notably, what was "Snappy Snaps" near my workplace has now reopened after a four year closure as an independent photo lab complete with mini-lab and both Kodak & Ilford film on sale. I might pop in soon to get to know them and see what services they offer.
Bellamy saying "it's not what you think" is intriguing though. As for his hatred of Fuji, their lack of transparency regarding their future intentions of 35mm and 120 film production seems to really anger some people. There's at least one UK film retailer who regularly bashes Fuji for this too, to the point that I believe they actually hate Fuji. But they're just being Japanese....and Japanese business culture really isn't anything like as open as American, British or European - and even we have our trade secrets. I'd never expect Fuji to actually be forthcoming about their future intentions.
Fuji is also organized primarily as an industrial B2B company, not as a consumer brand. They're very different from e.g. Kodak and Harman in this respect, and this difference has only been amplified when the market for film photography collapsed around 2003. Take the RA4 business for instance. It's not that they don't want to reach out to people like us. It's simply that they don't have the means to do so. I suspect it's very similar for the Japanese branche that deals with film manufacturing. They're not organized to talk to us. They're very good at talking to other industrial partners, however.
As to E6 - it's a difficult market and I'd be very surprised to see Harman enter it. If anything I see processing capacity for E6 drop due to a lack of demand. It doesn't seem to benefit from the film resurgence as much as C41 and B&W do.
That's what is puzzling me as I'm struggling to think what would give rise to such excitement among the various influencers that are in the know other than C41 colour film. I imagine that Pemberton will be looking for something that gives a reasonably quick pay-back of what has been invested (although looking at the accounts this seems to be around a couple of million - unless there has been massive spend since Dec 2022) which would agin point to C41 35mm films around 200/400 ISO for the amateur market as that must be where the volume is. It's difficult to think of anything else that would come within the categories covered by the Phoenix trademark that would create as much wide-ranging excitement.
I want to shoot a decent batch of E6 next year, finishing off what I have on stock (Pandemic dated Provia). I disgress about Fuji supplying easily as at the moment their line up is just strange (specially in 120). Chromes are listed but rather sold out in Europe and there are no pro 120 C41 films, honestly if one is a user this is rather frustrating. However, at least they did warn in late 2022 and early 2023 with the couple notices about shortages and the Japanese order pause period.
Koraks has a great point that also Pentax ran into when developing their film cameras now. As in having quite a distance towards the end users, which is interesting in these times and rather cultural.
Unfortunately E6 is not living so much of a resurgence, and the "film look" is mapped to ISO200-400 C41 film, without considering E6 much at all.
I agree about mailing labs, and for color I resort to do so. But for E6 I might as well get chemistry and DIY. There isn't much E6 going on in Scandinavia and I am actually wondering if many small labs' equipment and chemistry isn't that far off what one can do in an amateur darkroom; Haven't seen much fuss about dip and dunk E6 and such.
Fujifilm doesn't seem to consistently supply their E-6 films. They only seem to be in stock intermittently anywhere. Maybe in Japan they are more consistently available.
There are still quite a few dip and dunk E-6 labs in the United States. But some of the labs that offer E-6 as an extra in-house service do develop it by hand in small tanks.
For any labs that want to get into E-6, there are still the high-grade Colenta roller transport film processors available new. And for lab-scale chemical quantities there is Fujifilm (Fuji Hunt) and Bellini Foto.
There are still quite a few dip and dunk E-6 labs in the United States. But some of the labs that offer E-6 as an extra in-house service do develop it by hand in small tanks.
For any labs that want to get into E-6, there are still the high-grade Colenta roller transport film processors available new. And for lab-scale chemical quantities there is Fujifilm (Fuji Hunt) and Bellini Foto.
Portra and Ektar are 'pro' and seem to be available at least around here, especially in 120. Are they not available in Sweden? Or are they not sufficiently 'pro'? If so, what are your requirements? Perhaps a solution is available.
The cultural aspect/attitude is certainly of note. Times really have changed. In the heydays of film, it was fine for a firm like Fuji doing unidirectional communications to the market - basically broadcasting/advertising and getting the message across. Today, people expect more of a dialogue and more interactivity. My impression is that this in particular is what's currently hurting Fuji's reputation; they're not very well set up to do this for their film and paper products. Interestingly, they do try in some areas, but this is almost entirely unnoticed on this platform. For instance, the paper people are active on instagram and do artist takeovers where a photographer takes over their IG channel for a week. And the digital camera people have a small group of 'ambassadors' who are an integral part of their community reach out, with these people giving lectures, Q&A's, doing shows etc. It's just quite labor intensive to do all these things, which I guess is the main reason that holds them back. Harman seems to do this better, and Adox too, but I do wonder to what extent their jobs are made easier because they just have a much narrower product range and market segments to focus on. They can indeed focus their efforts, while Fuji is juggling a rather large number of balls, especially on the market side.
Yes they are. We can buy Portra film in all formats in which it is manufactured.
It’s expensive as hell though.
He spoke about Fujifilm Professional c41 films.
Pro160NS and 400H are unfortunately gone...
OK, that wasn't clear to me. Yes, Fuji C41 is past tense.
Yes, a bit. I think I paid something like €80 for a pro-pack P400 last time I bought it about a month ago.
"It's not what you think it is".
Oh, really?
And just what does he think that I think it is?
Oh, really?
And just what does he think that I think it is?
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www.pemberstone.com
Longterm, building and supporting, there's capital available to do a color film line if it makes sense.
Who knows, it seems to have this forum all a buzz, if it's good for Ilford/Harman technology it's good for us.
I don't know the nature of the relationship between Pemperstone and Harman and to what extent the former is willing to invest in what kind of endeavors. Maybe. Maybe not. This is the kind of thing we generally don't hear about.
Someone did reach out to me and suggested to have a look at who's presently working at Harman R&D. Sure enough, some people running around there who are working on organic dye synthesis, which would suggest chromogenic products. This could of course just be the necessary work on keeping products like XP2 alive, or the work that's necessary for panchromatic sensitization of regular B&W films (this uses organic dyes as well, after all), but it could of course also mean far more colorful dyes. I can't deny the fact that these people are working at Harman. I don't know how many of them there are and whether they constitute big enough of an army to get a C41 color product off the ground. It's conceivable, I guess.
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This certainly sounds like a good argument in favour of it being C41 rather than E6 to me
pentaxuser
The box art looks like it took 5 mins in Photoshop…..
apparently it's no longer a secretReddit - Dive into anything
www.reddit.com
"It's limited edition"...
If true, disappointing but consistent with modern internet/influencer hype marketing.
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