Harman Photo cryptic announcement/teaser

[retina_restoration]

I know several photographers who have received the Harman Phoenix postcard in the mail - photographers who work exclusively with color films. I'm certain that's not a coincidence/unintentional.

 

[brbo]

Stop talking about colour film! I will only hurt that much more when they announce a... bluetooth speaker.

 

[koraks]

I will only hurt that much more when they announce a... bluetooth speaker.

You could listen to all those podcasts on shooting color film on the bluetooth speaker, though. If you do this during darkroom sessions, you'd have to carefully tape off the bright blue LED that's inevitably part of the design, of course.

All kidding aside, I'm curious as to what'll come of this. They've succeeded in creating hubbub. That's a good start.

 

[retina_restoration]

They've succeeded in creating hubbub. That's a good start.

Exactly - it's working.

 

[tykos]

I know several photographers who have received the Harman Phoenix postcard in the mail - photographers who work exclusively with color films. I'm certain that's not a coincidence/unintentional.

SFLAB (youtuber) only works with BW except a couple of occasions and still got the card, so...

 

[tykos]

Theoretically. But given the fact that the former Geigi facilities were sold off long ago (partly used by Adox, currently) and in all likelihood the technological knowledge has long ago left the company, I'd be very surprised.

Another reason is that the market for a resurrected dye destruction/color positive print material would be really, really tiny. You'd be very hard pressed to even make a decent business case for analog-only RA4 paper, let alone something that'll print E6 in a darkroom. The number of E6 shooters is quite limited and the subset who prints their slides is smaller, and out of those, a good many are perfectly happy enough scanning their slides and outputting in whatever digital means is available to them.

The niche you'd end up targeting Cibachrome to would not justify resurrection of the infrastructure, which would include also the processing chemistry and distribution thereof. Also, part of this chemistry had a notoriously limited shelf life, as did the 'paper' itself, so logistics in a low volume market would be an utter nightmare.

Color negative would be more likely than Cibachrome, and even that takes a ton of (IMO baseless) optimism to believe in.

and they would be dependant on someone else's decisions on film production, and that is useful with 2 stocks currently produced (hoping that provia is really produced and not only defrosted)

 

[Xylo]

Can I take it that you are serious about such hopes?

Well, it would be fairly easy to do with modern tech. You inkjet print a stochastic pattern on the base using UV hardened dyes. That would give a middle gray look. Then you coat the regular emulsion on the back side. And you cut and roll the whole thing on 120 spools so that the backing paper protects the emulsion from abrasion in the camera.

That would produce a color image without the need for the expensive funky chemicals used in C-41 and E-6.

 

[Oldwino]

More re-spooled Aerochrome IV?

 

[Ian Grant]

Be nice if they resurrected and updated the Ilford Witness, and its Dallmeyer Super Six lens, maybe re-designed by Cooke Optics.

We will have to wait and see . . . . . . . . . .

Ian

 

[Ballinderry-Michael]

Be nice if they resurrected and updated the Ilford Witness, and its Dallmeyer Super Six lens, maybe re-designed by Cooke Optics.

We will have to wait and see . . . . . . . . . .

Ian

Or maybe perfect a daguerreotype process that doesn't result in mirror images.

 

[Ian Grant]

Something we have missed is there is a new website as well. Harmanphoto it is just a holding page so far, but the indications are it's a significant launch. The Domain name was registered in 2021.

Ian

 

[Buzz-01]

Yes, I'd say so

Your post makes total sense, but otoh it could be beneficial for both Harman and Fuji.
And it does fit Fuji's apparent strategy of outsourcing film production. Plus it would make sense for Fuji to spread the risk over more than one partner.

But you're probably right, wishful thinking...

Stop talking about colour film! I will only hurt that much more when they announce a... bluetooth speaker.

Sorry! It does make sense though for this new thing to be something colour related, they didn't register a new website (business entity?) to do more black and white stuff I'd say.

You could listen to all those podcasts on shooting color film on the bluetooth speaker, though. If you do this during darkroom sessions, you'd have to carefully tape off the bright blue LED that's inevitably part of the design, of course.

All kidding aside, I'm curious as to what'll come of this. They've succeeded in creating hubbub. That's a good start.

Hubbub for sure! And we're all falling for it!

 

[koraks]

Plus it would make sense for Fuji to spread the risk over more than one partner.

The "risk" of losing Kodak as a partner is negligible for Fuji, realistically speaking. Photographic film has an insignificant impact on their bottom line. If it would be that important, they would have continued producing it themselves. There's no business sense in jumping through all sorts of strategic hoops in this product category.

 

[pentaxuser]

Well, it would be fairly easy to do with modern tech. You inkjet print a stochastic pattern on the base using UV hardened dyes. That would give a middle gray look. Then you coat the regular emulsion on the back side. And you cut and roll the whole thing on 120 spools so that the backing paper protects the emulsion from abrasion in the camera.

That would produce a color image without the need for the expensive funky chemicals used in C-41 and E-6.

Fine Have you sent your idea to Ilford, Foma, Adox or even Kodak to see what it says about (a) ease of doing and (b) cost of doing v return on investment? It just always seem strange to me that "easy to do" ways of producing colour film have never been tried by the manufacturers of film. I suppose that it is possible they never thought of your easy method but I'd have thought that is unlikely.

pentaxuser

 

[pentaxuser]

Something we have missed is there is a new website as well. Harmanphoto it is just a holding page so far, but the indications are it's a significant launch. The Domain name was registered in 2021.

Ian

Let's hope so Ian otherwise the phrase "egg on face" springs to mind

pentaxuser

 

[Buzz-01]

The "risk" of losing Kodak as a partner is negligible for Fuji, realistically speaking. Photographic film has an insignificant impact on their bottom line. If it would be that important, they would have continued producing it themselves. There's no business sense in jumping through all sorts of strategic hoops in this product category.

True, it's obvious that their primary focus is elsewhere.

 

[Ian Grant]

It's worth remembering that Ilford had links to many companies, in the late 1970s/early 80s they began selling Ilford colour films again, they chose the wrong partner Sakura/Konica, the E6 film was not particularly good and wasn't around very long. I still have an unprocessed roll somewhere. At the time Ilford were moving all production to Mobberly, and had earmarked an area of ground for a building to housepossible new colour coating line.

Ilford had links to many of the Eastern block companies supplying them with Phenidone, it's why Foma liquid developers are based on Ilford formulae. I remember Simon Galley telling me Foma invited him for a factory tour when he visited the Czech Republic on holiday, so there must have been some business contracts.

Ilford later partnered with Fuji making some of their films as well as B&W papers, Fuji also partnered with Foma building a joint confectioning plant.

When I last visited the Ilford importer in Turkey, about 2010, they had fresh 35mm Ilford C41 film on their shelves, in hindsight I should have bought a box. It was probably re-badged Fuji film.

Ian

 

[koraks]

True, it's obvious that their primary focus is elsewhere.

FUJIFILM's revenue is likely to be significantly larger than the combined analog photography industry. IIRC their annual revenues are around $20b. It's natural their focus is in entirely different areas.

 

[MattKing]

The odds of Harman coating a color film emulsion seem rather slim to me from a technical viewpoint. Coating B&W and color are pretty different things.

Totally agree.
However, Harman do contract out their confectioning/finishing capacity to others. It would be a relatively small step to buy coated to specification master rolls from Eastman Kodak and attend to the confectioning/finishing of same, followed by channeling the results into the distribution system they already have in place for Ilford and Kentmere products.

 

[Anon Ymous]

Totally agree.
However, Harman do contract out their confectioning/finishing capacity to others. It would be a relatively small step to buy coated to specification master rolls from Eastman Kodak and attend to the confectioning/finishing of same, followed by channeling the results into the distribution system they already have in place for Ilford and Kentmere products.

Oh, imagine Ilford buying C41 film master rolls from Kodak and supplying bulk rolls that Kodak is unable to do.

 

[MattKing]

Oh, imagine Ilford buying C41 film master rolls from Kodak and supplying bulk rolls that Kodak is unable to do.

No reason not to - as long as it isn't identical to film currently sold under the Kodak brand.
If volumes weren't as tiny as they are for bulk loads, Eastman Kodak and Kodak Alaris could even consider having Harman do that confectioning/finishing for them for Kodak branded film.

 

[calebarchie]

220? Seems like a pretty obvious and overlooked one. That or some plates..

 

[Melvin J Bramley]

If the Pheonix is to rise then it could be found here!

Ilford History and Chronology

HP5 autowind perhaps?

 

[Agulliver]

220? Seems like a pretty obvious and overlooked one. That or some plates..

There would be no reason to use the Harman name for 220 film or glass plates, assuming they are B&W emulsions. They could use the Ilford name on those products.

Last time anyone asked, it was explained that the 220 confectioning machinery would cost so much to repair that they couldn't hope to sell enough film to ever make it pay for itself.

IF they are using the Harman name, either they're dropping the Ilford name altogether (which seems highly unlikely) or this is not a traditional B&W photography product/service that is being launched.

 

[Truzi]

The logo reminds me of the second generation Pontiac Trans Am. (Actually, it's a lot better than the Thunder Chicken.)