Harman Direct Positive

[Ian Grant]

The Direct Positive paper isn't listed in the Product Availability PDF

Two questions.

1) Will it be re-introduced as an RC paper. I had a commercial use for the RC version and had to put the whole project on hold. Presumably now Harman/Ilford make the emulsion at Mobberley the technical issues of the former Marly emulsion can be overcome. While I personally prefer FB papers to be economic and feasible the project need an RC paper.

2) Why is it only available in US sizes. I'm thinking more here of larger than 10x8, there's no 12x10 or 15x12. We don't have 14x11 or 16x12 cameras in the UK, and what about European users with Continental formats like 18x24cm, 9x12 etc.

Another option would be to use the Ilford Galerie Digital Silver paper (RC version) in camera and reversal process it. Has this been tried ?

Ian

 

[Xmas]

https://www.silverprint.co.uk/back-harman-direct-positive-paper/

?

 

[Ian Grant]

https://www.silverprint.co.uk/back-harman-direct-positive-paper/

?

Yes US sizes only and nothing on the Ilford/Harman website.

Ian

 

[Xmas]

They had a data sheet?

https://www.silverprint.co.uk/wp-co...rect-Positive-Paper-Technical-Information.pdf

And it is paper you need to guillotine in safelight. I assume that the 'EU' market is too small.

Silver print keep trying to sell me ULF short dated film.

I'm ok as my pinhole is an ex 400 foot cine can pano.

 

[Ian Grant]

Noel, the project I have in mind needs the paper ready cut to the correct sizes and ideally RC. The whole process would have to be simple and to be feasible a finished print available in under 10 minutes which is very easy to do with RC papers.

The problem with using FB papers is the wash times needed to achieve a reasonable degree of permanence and then the drying. It's a project I discussed briefly in the past with a couple of the Ilford directors who've left.

Ian

 

[AgX]

This thread is in the wrong forum:
it should be in the dedicated IlfordPhoto forum (not the advertizers forum as right now).

 

[Xmas]

Noel, the project I have in mind needs the paper ready cut to the correct sizes and ideally RC. The whole process would have to be simple and to be feasible a finished print available in under 10 minutes which is very easy to do with RC papers.

The problem with using FB papers is the wash times needed to achieve a reasonable degree of permanence and then the drying. It's a project I discussed briefly in the past with a couple of the Ilford directors who've left.

Ian

Hi Ian

I understand your problem but if they don't have automated finishing equipment or don't see sufficient volume then they might not finish.
They have offered rolls to special order?
I need to guillotine mine in dim red...
I can use RC or paper when I finish making the cameras.
I should really buy a 4x5 box when I'm passing silver-print next.

Noel

 

[Ian Grant]

The Direct Positive paper isn't listed in the Product Availability PDF

Two questions.

1) Will it be re-introduced as an RC paper. I had a commercial use for the RC version and had to put the whole project on hold. Presumably now Harman/Ilford make the emulsion at Mobberley the technical issues of the former Marly emulsion can be overcome. While I personally prefer FB papers to be economic and feasible the project need an RC paper.

2) Why is it only available in US sizes. I'm thinking more here of larger than 10x8, there's no 12x10 or 15x12. We don't have 14x11 or 16x12 cameras in the UK, and what about European users with Continental formats like 18x24cm, 9x12 etc.

Another option would be to use the Ilford Galerie Digital Silver paper (RC version) in camera and reversal process it. Has this been tried ?

Ian

Still waiting for an answer from Harman/Ilford many months later. The application I have in mind was discussed with former Ilford Directors and was a viable proposition and would raise the profile of silver gelatin photography.

Ian

 

[markbarendt]

Have you tried a direct approach?

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/contact.asp

 

[tedr1]

seems to be listed now http://www.ilfordphoto.com/products/product.asp?n=65&t=Photographic+Papers

 

[gone]

It's listed, but at the bottom it mentions that mid July looks to be the earliest it may be available, and August in the US. And that may be just total BS because the announcement date on that article is June 3, 2015, not 2016.

 

[tedr1]

in stock here in the USA http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?atclk=Paper+Type_Positive+(Reversal)&ci=802&N=4288586366+4291407242+4289268056

 

[MattKing]

in stock here in the USA http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?atclk=Paper+Type_Positive+(Reversal)&ci=802&N=4288586366+4291407242+4289268056

Ian needs the RC version.

 

[markbarendt]

Ian is looking for RC not FB.

 

[Ian Grant]

It's sad that current Harman/Ilford employees can't even be bothered to respond here or privately. The project while it has to be commercial in terms of at least breaking even is highly educational and an introduction to analog photography for mostly young people. At present what first appears to be analog all changea whe DSLRs are produced and then inkjet prints and it's such a travesty.

While it would be possible to use FB Direct Positive paper it would mean the customers could only see the wet prints, few would have time to wait & colledct after archival processing, so you'd have to post prints later. RC DP paper would be absolutely ideal.

With no response I'm now looking at which paper is best for reversal processing, something I've done in the past and it's very easy. The application can use relatively fixed parameters so is very easily repeatable. (Galaxy paper isn't an option at this point).

Ian

 

[Andre Noble]

I am grateful we have Ilford at all. I will be participating in the next Ilford ULF film order in 2017 for my first time!

 

[Harman Tech Service]

Ian,
I'm afraid I missed this thread for some reason. Please accept my apologies for not replying sooner.

We had technical problems with coating the RC version of Direct Positive and the demand for the FB version has been so great that we have been concentrating on stabilising production of that version. Even though we have finished this product for some years it is still a relatively new emulsion to us and different in many ways to the products we develop ourselves. We would like to re-introduce the RC version but I cannot say when this will happen - if and when will depend on how great the technical obstacles prove to be. Our coating attempts on RC did not meet our quality standards.

I do not know how the current format range of the Direct Positive Paper was arrived at but will ask the question.

For your third question, we have never tried reversal processing of the Digital Paper. Usually, when people find out they have to handle it in total darkness they lose interest in it for darkroom use completely. It is best suited to machine (laser) exposing for this reason and also for its design which we think makes it best suited for short, high intensity exposures.

Please send any queries like this to Technical@harmantechnology.com where we will try to deal with them as soon as possible.
Regards and again sorry,

-David.

 

[flavio81]

Ian,
I'm afraid I missed this thread for some reason. Please accept my apologies for not replying sooner.

We had technical problems with coating the RC version of Direct Positive and the demand for the FB version has been so great that we have been concentrating on stabilising production of that version. Even though we have finished this product for some years it is still a relatively new emulsion to us and different in many ways to the products we develop ourselves. We would like to re-introduce the RC version but I cannot say when this will happen - if and when will depend on how great the technical obstacles prove to be. Our coating attempts on RC did not meet our quality standards.

I do not know how the current format range of the Direct Positive Paper was arrived at but will ask the question.

For your third question, we have never tried reversal processing of the Digital Paper. Usually, when people find out they have to handle it in total darkness they lose interest in it for darkroom use completely. It is best suited to machine (laser) exposing for this reason and also for its design which we think makes it best suited for short, high intensity exposures.

Please send any queries like this to Technical@harmantechnology.com where we will try to deal with them as soon as possible.
Regards and again sorry,

-David.

It is great to have such an unique product as the direct paper. Someday i'll try it!

 

[Ian Grant]

Thanks for replying David. I'll get in touch with Technical services when I get back from a visit to Canada in a couple of weeks about the reversal processing..

I guess you appreciate that no cameras were made or sold in Europe taking some of the Direct Positive paper sizes except 5x4 and 10x8, 7x5 camera have all been recently imported from the US.

Ian

 

[Hatchetman]

Anyone have any thoughts about trying to print slides on this stuff?

 

[sly]

Anyone have any thoughts about trying to print slides on this stuff?

I've used it to print old lantern slides.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[Hatchetman]

I've used it to print old lantern slides.

Any tricks or is it pretty straightforward?

 

[sly]

As noted - the DPP is pretty contrasty. I preflashed and used dilute developer to control the contrast. Took some fiddling, but turned out OK. The fact that increasing exposure makes the print brighter, not darker, was a bit challenging.

 

[tezzasmall]

'...paper is best for reversal processing, something I've done in the past and it's very easy.'

Ian

Hi Ian,

I've been reading up on what I can on the web and in a few books recently about this process as I find it intriguing and want to have a go, but I can only find snippets of info about it (= reversal printing of (ordinary darkroom???) papers.)

Can you provide either some step by step info or a link or two if possible please?

Many thanks.

Terry S

 

[Ian Grant]

Terry, I've been over whelmed with work so not had time to go any further with this project.

Basic reversal processing is relatively simple I've posted many formulae on the Resources section of this website, it's a case of using a first developer of the appropriate contrast with papers, It's over 40 years since I last made reversal B&W prints. I went to a lecture by a Research student who was at the Birmingham School of Photography and he had mazing prints shot on Reversal processed FP4 then reversal printed on Ilfobrom.

It's not difficult but does need very precise control as there's no room for error which is why you'll find it's not used. My potential use is for a very controlled environment, consistent exposures lighting to ensure repeatability.

Ian