Hardener in fixer for film

[Mainecoonmaniac]

I've heard it from both sides regarding hardener in your fixer for BW film processing. I've gone both ways and I find hardener in my fixer for film helps prevents scratching on my negs. How many APUGers out there use hardener when souping film? Are there any drawbacks in using hardener when processing BW film?

 

[Ian Grant]

Are there any advantages, I don't think so.

I haven't used a hardening fixer for maybe 37 or 38 years. My negatives are quite scratch resistant, modern emulsion are well hardened, except AOX/EFKE abut once dry they are robust as well. Hardening fixers cost more need an awful lot longer wash times so use much more water.

Ian

 

[Neal]

Dear Maincoonmaniac,

I use Kodafix hardening fixer for my film. Works wonderfully, easy to find, and it withstands multiple trips through the "Silver-Magnet" without issue.

Neal Wydra

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

Do you have everlasting fixer?

Dear Maincoonmaniac,

I use Kodafix hardening fixer for my film. Works wonderfully, easy to find, and it withstands multiple trips through the "Silver-Magnet" without issue.

Neal Wydra

Hi Neal,
Do you have everlasting fix using that magnet? Thanks for the tip. Don

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I agree with Ian, but as far as I understand, hardeners may have a place in areas in which high development temperatures are unavoidable.

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

Does high development tempratures cause..

I agree with Ian, but as far as I understand, hardeners may have a place in areas in which high development temperatures are unavoidable.

Does high development temperatures cause the emulsion to get soft which makes film easier to scratch?:confused: Is a high development temperature is 68 degrees and above?

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Does high development temperatures cause the emulsion to get soft which makes film easier to scratch?:confused: Is a high development temperature is 68 degrees and above?

Yes, but I wouldn't consider 20C as high. I'm talking 27C or higher.

 

[John Shriver]

Washing times are shorter without hardener.

Except for Efke, films today are pre-hardened enough that hardener isn't necessary.

 

[Trask]

I have been using the Foma fixer/hardener that comes in a box with separate plastic envelopes. I decided to go this route because of my very high wash temps, as our water is gravity fed from a roof tank -- and I live in Saudi Arabia. I had also hoped it would prevent film curl, which was occurring even with normal wash temps, but I can't say that it really addressed the issue.

 

[Ian Grant]

Yes, but I wouldn't consider 20C as high. I'm talking 27C or higher.

Once you start using 27°C or higher you should ideally be using a Tropical developer anyway, which usually contain Sodium Sulphate which helps prevent the Gelatin swelling.

This time of years I work at 26°C as that's the tap water temperature, I'd need to use ice or the refrigerator to cool everything to work lower.

It does become far more important to keep tight temperature control at 26°C but in practice because that's often the ambient temperature as well the whole cycle from dev to wash falls in within +/- 0.2C. There's still no need for a hardening fixer.

Ian

 

[w9cae]

Recently when trying to buy some Tetenal hardener for Efki films. I was told that all modern fixer has hardener in it. The guy saying this has been honest & correct in the past. But I have still held off on using & developing my Efki film. The only fixer I have seen hardener stated in the description is from Foma. Hopefully someone will chime in here & shed some light ?

 

[Anon Ymous]

Few fixers sold today have hardener, most don't. Some may be formulated so that they can accept hardener as an additive, like Ilford's Hypam. Others are incompatible.

 

[w9cae]

I bought some Tetenal "Superfix PLUS" on recommendation from this same fella it would be good for Efki. Normally I use Agfa Fixerkonzentrate.

 

[Neal]

Dear Don,

I don't keep it forever. After a while the carry over from the stop bath makes it look uglier than I would like. Even if it still clears film nicely, I eventually remove the silver one last time and bring the fixer to the household waste station. I am timid with paper fixer. I do the two bath thing, remove the silver and take it to the waste station. I also do not use hardening fixer when printing.

Neal

 

[RalphLambrecht]

... There's still no need for a hardening fixer.

Ian

I agree, no need - but the only possible reason for me to use a hardener.