Handling color paper on rolls in a small darkroom?

Donald Qualls · Oct 9, 2020

Storage space is the same either way, and putting full size in the text means we don't have to deal with the space-robbing frame of the board's viewer.

pentaxuser · Oct 9, 2020

Jim I liked the big pics. What I now notice is that beyond the cutter there is or appears to be a paper safe into which each sheet as it is done can be placed so no chance of stray sheets and when finished cutting the stack of sheets are already in a neat pile for transfer to a black bag and maybe then an old paper box

pentaxuser

DREW WILEY · Oct 9, 2020

I cut up to 30X40 inch sheets off a 40 inch wide roll in full darkness, and transfer those into a 30x40 paper safe unwrinkled; and for smaller sizes like 20x24, might cut them further down and place those in an appropriate smaller safe, and then those into 8x10 test strips with yet another safe, etc. My cutting table has threaded inserts to allow my stainless squaring straightedge to precisely fitted in various width positions. But all this kind of thing could be set up on smaller scale if you were working with only 20 inch rolls for example, in which case a 24 inch trimmer would be recommended. I use a 42 inch one.

Jim Blodgett · Oct 10, 2020

"... into which each sheet as it is done can be placed..."

Yes. That certainly would work.

To the left of that same paper safe you see I have a drop table dropped. Whenever I'm cutting paper I raise this up to table height to give as much clear working surface as possible. And of course, clear everything not used in the cutting process off the table. It's been a few weeks since I printed and everything is a mess in there right now. I just took a few quick snap shots to try to answer Donald' s question.

perkeleellinen · Oct 10, 2020

Allow me to add. For many years I printed on cut Kodak Endura and I was very happy with it. When it was discontinued I stocked up and it lasted for more years than I imagined. As my stocks ran low I found that NordFoto in Germany were cutting the new version of Endura so I bought some of that but then they stopped and my supply of Kodak paper ended. Reluctantly I bought some cut Fuji and fearing the worst, made some prints. And ... they were pretty good! Paper was not as thin as Bible paper as I feared, the colours and blacks were fine.

For years I thought Fuji paper was horrible based on comments here. But when I tried it, I was happy with it.

Donald Qualls · Oct 10, 2020

Well, we'll see. I expect I'll start with the precut Fuji, just because there's no other possible way I can be ready to start making prints over my 4-day Thanksgiving weekend (really only six weeks away now?). Most likely I'll need to start cutting from rolls at some point, just because of the cost differential if nothing else -- but it doesn't have to immediately, even if the Fuji is pretty bad. Just like if I were learning to make B&W prints, I could learn the basics of exposure, focusing, cropping, and processing with old, slightly fogged paper, as long as I knew to expect muddy highlights.

pentaxuser · Oct 10, 2020

It seems to me Donald that the key thing is: will you use a roll's worth of paper within the period that we know it stays fresh for? For that you need to know how long a roll stays fresh and how many sheets from a roll you will use in the time frame
It might be interesting to find out from our roll users what the age of their paper was by the end of the roll unless there is statement from Kodak that covers this.

pentaxuser

Donald Qualls · Oct 10, 2020

Interesting though, @pentaxuser . Of course, given the rolls cost much less than the same area of paper does in sheets, it's like shopping at Costco -- it's not a question whether I'll use it up before it goes bad, it's whether I'll get as much use as the same money on precut paper, before the roll goes bad. Looks like Unique (almost the only place I've found to get more than one or two choices in color paper) has Crystal Archive Luster, 10" x 295' (equivalent of 440+ sheets of 8x10) for $56 plus shipping -- vs. 100 sheets of precut 8x10 (the "inferior" Crystal Archive II) for $45. That's more than four times as many sheets for 25% more money. Looks to me as if I'm ahead if I can use up a third of the roll vs. buying precut. And once I'm printing regularly, I don't think it's unlikely I'll get through a 10" roll in a year. Not to mention that I can cut 10x12 and other aspect ratios (10x15 for full frame from 35mm or 6x9? 10x10 for square, of course) from the same roll, even before I consider a recut (say, 8x12 by taking off a 2" strip).

I don't see a question of a 10" wide roll being a bargain compared to precut -- as long as I can avoid fogging the whole thing one way or another before I even get to print on it.

Jim Blodgett · Oct 10, 2020

Years. They last for years. Especially if you refrigerate them.

Donald Qualls · Oct 10, 2020

Jim Blodgett said:
Years. They last for years. Especially if you refrigerate them.

But then there's the cost of a refrigerator big enough for the roll(s). A dorm fridge might work for a 10" x 295' roll, but probably not for anything wider than 12", and perhaps not even for 10" if you get the long (610 foot) roll.

Jim Blodgett · Oct 10, 2020

I have a small chest freezer I bought for 50 bones on craigs list. I could measure, but I'd say it's about 36" long x 30" tall x 24". I have at least one box of 20" paper, a roll or two of 11", a few boxes of 8x10 sheets, my stash of film...test strips for my processor...I don't know WHAT all I have in there.

But I have a bunch of rolls people have given me not refrigerated, too, Donald. Prints just fine. Some of it is dated 10 years old, older. I just finished an 11" roll the UPS date on the box was 2006 or something crazy like that. Even when it goes bad it starts by white going yellow. You can almost always color correct to compensate, you just don't get great whites. I'm talking many years. It would in no way detract from your darkroom enjoyment, at least it doesn't affect mine.

Donald Qualls · Oct 11, 2020

And then there's the question of rolls like this one. That's almost six hundred feet of ten inch wide paper for less than a fresh 295 foot roll -- and "only ten or twenty layers torn". Obviously one would need to discard several (ten?) more layers beyond the deepest one that's penetrated; one would also need a new black bag to keep it in (contractor trash bag?) -- but $80 shipped and only a year and a half out of date? I'm inclined to avoid it, but I could buy it if experienced folk think it'd be a good deal.

koraks · Oct 11, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
but I could buy it if experienced folk think it'd be a good deal.

Don't. Apart from the affected layers, which could be more depending on how tightly the roll was still wound, you'll have hundreds of feet of paper with a dark band on most likely both edges that tapers off into red, magenta and yellow.
I still have a roll of paper whose bag had a pinhole. The one on Ebay will be similar only much worse.

Donald Qualls · Oct 11, 2020

koraks said:
Don't. Apart from the affected layers, which could be more depending on how tightly the roll was still wound, you'll have hundreds of feet of paper with a dark band on most likely both edges that tapers off into red, magenta and yellow.
I still have a roll of paper whose bag had a pinhole. The one on Ebay will be similar only much worse.

That's more or less what I suspected. Worth asking, though.

btaylor · Oct 11, 2020

perkeleellinen said:
Reluctantly I bought some cut Fuji and fearing the worst, made some prints. And ... they were pretty good! Paper was not as thin as Bible paper as I feared, the colours and blacks were fine.

For years I thought Fuji paper was horrible based on comments here. But when I tried it, I was happy with it.

I got back into RA4 printing after Kodak stopped selling cut sheets- I hadn’t heard that the Fuji paper was bad, but as it was the only name brand left I used it. No complaints. Looks great, handles fine.
I have been watching this thread with interest as I do want to try the Endura paper soon and am trying to figure out the best way to cut it. Great ideas here- thanks for sharing everyone

Jim Blodgett · Oct 11, 2020

More rolled paper cutting techniques - My processor only accepts paper 16" or narrower, so while cutting 20" paper rolls to whatever length is easy enough with a standard rotary cutter, ripping to width is a little trickier. I made this 16x38" borderless easel from black melamine (available in 1/2" and 3/4" from any cabinet sheet goods supply house).

It works great to cut paper to length and width too. I set it up with the back fence perpendicular to the roll of paper, pull paper out until it bumps the end fence,

then use a sharp snap blade knife to slide along the end of the easel to cut the sheet to length, and across the front to cut the sheet to width.

And of course, when you cut a 20" wide sheet down to 16" wide you get a 4" test strip however long you sheet is. I generally cut these 38" test strips into 3 or 4 short pieces, but you could leave them long if that's the way you work.

Handling color paper on rolls in a small darkroom?

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