Handholdability of medium format cameras

film_man · Sep 29, 2020

Alan Edward Klein said:
What film? ISO?

...for which of all the things I wrote? Does it matter really, 1/60 is 1/60 and 1/8 is 1/8 regardless of film or ISO.

film_man · Sep 29, 2020

138S said:
Well , weight maters, the P67II is 1.2kg, while the RB67 is a 2.5kg brick... Not extrange the brick is more stable, and with a 10Kg camera we would shot easy at 1/4 or 1/2.. Anyway we may also add weight to the P67 or to the hassie...

My personal experience with the RB67 is that better not shooting that low speed handheld, and I feel less practical difference from the overweight. Personally, when having to shot at that low speed I prefer using the monopod, some agility is lost but there is way less risk we waste the shot, in MF shots have to be nailed if possible, isn't it?

True but there is a limit to how heavy a thing you can hold before it is too heavy to hold securely. Also, half a second or a quarter is slow enough to show your own body drift, you can handhold it that slow but only if you have braced yourself against a wall or something. Or maybe I should drink less coffee.

Grim Tuesday · Sep 29, 2020

On the subject of weight, I find my Pentax 6x7 very nice to handhold with the prism removed and with the waist level finder and wooden grip. It's really the ideal ergonomics for that wooden grip, I think. The shoe at the top of the grip allows for a shoe mount light meter, and once that's on there it's a nicer setup for waist level metering than any other medium format camera other than the Rollei SLR that has the TTL meter.

Pentode · Sep 29, 2020

Of the cameras I've owned, I find folders to be the easiest to handhold and TLRs come in a close second. The only medium format SLR I've owned was a Bronica S2a and I found it very poorly suited for handholding, which is why I sold it, despite it being a really nice camera. Even with a prism attached it just wasn't user-friendly for me. Other SLRs of that style that I've tried left me feeling the same way.

I've borrowed the Fuji and Mamiya rangefinders from my brother-in-law quite a few times and they were extremely easy to use handheld. Much easier, IMO, than any folder or TLR.
I've never owned or used a Kodak Medalist or a Pentacon 6 but I have handled them and I suspect they'd be pretty easy to use handheld as well.

DREW WILEY · Sep 29, 2020

The nice thing about a heavier, more solid camera, is that when somebody obnoxious walks up and asks you why you aren't using your cell phone instead, one good whack will silence them for awhile. With a Pentax 6X7, it's even easier. Just point the camera their direction, and once the mirror hits the top, the KER-LUNK will create an atmospheric shock wave strong enough to knock them.

Sirius Glass · Sep 29, 2020

Pentode said:
Of the cameras I've owned, I find folders to be the easiest to handhold and TLRs come in a close second. The only medium format SLR I've owned was a Bronica S2a and I found it very poorly suited for handholding, which is why I sold it, despite it being a really nice camera. Even with a prism attached it just wasn't user-friendly for me. Other SLRs of that style that I've tried left me feeling the same way.

I've borrowed the Fuji and Mamiya rangefinders from my brother-in-law quite a few times and they were extremely easy to use handheld. Much easier, IMO, than any folder or TLR.
I've never owned or used a Kodak Medalist or a Pentacon 6 but I have handled them and I suspect they'd be pretty easy to use handheld as well.

I use a 45 degree prism and that gives me two hands and my eye piece to stabilize the camera.

Besk · Sep 29, 2020

My favorite medium format camera for hand holding was a Hasselblad 500 cm, Maxwell screen and HC4 horizontal viewfinder with 80mm, 60mm or 50mm lenses.
You could cradle the camera in your left hand and press it against your face to really steady it. The HC4 requires a bright screen to focus and you can't wear glasses with it.
The 45 degree prism is almost as good.

Pentode · Sep 30, 2020

Sirius Glass said:
I use a 45 degree prism and that gives me two hands and my eye piece to stabilize the camera.

With an S2a or another SLR?

The S2a was a great machine; practically bomb proof and the lenses, both Zenzanon and Nikkor, were terrific. I used a 90 degree prism with mine. Holding it steady was never really my issue with it. I mostly shoot in the street and that camera, for me, was just ungainly, heavy and loud. If I was a studio or scenic photographer I probably would have kept it.

That basic, boxy, medium format SLR design, most famously in the form of Hassleblads, has been used handheld for countless weddings so there are obviously a whole lot of people who like using them handheld but that shape never felt comfortable to me.

Philippe-Georges · Sep 30, 2020

film_man said:
...for which of all the things I wrote? Does it matter really, 1/60 is 1/60 and 1/8 is 1/8 regardless of film or ISO.

If handholdability is related to image quality, then, till a certain amount, filmspeed is, among others, that too.
What could be the use of (over-) pushing the filmspeed in order to compensate for bad handholdability?
A good camera and - lens combined with dito film (-speed), regardless brand or design, might be the way to go to shoot handhold with acceptable results...

film_man · Oct 1, 2020

Philippe-Georges said:
If handholdability is related to image quality, then, till a certain amount, filmspeed is, among others, that too.
What could be the use of (over-) pushing the filmspeed in order to compensate for bad handholdability?
A good camera and - lens combined with dito film (-speed), regardless brand or design, might be the way to go to shoot handhold with acceptable results...

Fair enough, I should have mentioned I hardly ever push film and generally use Portra 400 in lower light.

cayenne · Oct 1, 2020

LOL....with me, it isn't so much the shaky hands, and the failing EYESIGHT!!

:O

cayenne

Arthurwg · Oct 1, 2020

DREW WILEY said:
The nice thing about a heavier, more solid camera, is that when somebody obnoxious walks up and asks you why you aren't using your cell phone instead, one good whack will silence them for awhile. With a Pentax 6X7, it's even easier. Just point the camera their direction, and once the mirror hits the top, the KER-LUNK will create an atmospheric shock wave strong enough to knock them.

I tel them the camera is just like a cell phone except that you can't make calls.

ic-racer · Oct 1, 2020

How do you hand-holder's feel about accessory handle grips? My first Rollei SLR did not have one, but my 6008i and Hy6 both have built-in side-grips that I like. They have electronic shutter buttons and I think this helps with hand-holding.

Sirius Glass · Oct 2, 2020

ic-racer said:
How do you hand-holder's feel about accessory handle grips? My first Rollei SLR did not have one, but my 6008i and Hy6 both have built-in side-grips that I like. They have electronic shutter buttons and I think this helps with hand-holding.

For the Hasselblad I only use the QuickFlip 350 (310-635) when I use the Nikon Speedlight SB 800.

Bormental · Oct 2, 2020

Maybe I'm weak, but raising any camera to eye level (as opposed to waist level) only reduces the stability because my hands just aren't as steady in a raised position.

Arthurwg · Oct 2, 2020

As SG mentioned, using a 45 degree prism on the Hasselblad lets you stabilize the camera against your forehead. Makes a big difference.

etn · Oct 3, 2020

DREW WILEY said:
I'm extremely skeptical just how many handheld MF shots are truly sharp in the sense of being able to withstand any serious degree of enlargement.

Bormental said:
Thank you for saying that. I've been watching this thread in disbelief, as if my original question made no sense. Resolution is one of the major reasons to shoot medium format and I suspect a lot of peeps here are throwing it out the window.

I think that Bormental's question makes a lot of sense - as does Drew's comment.
In my experience I often had to compromise between a fast shutter speed and sufficient depth of field. Both contribute to "sharpness" but in a different and conflicting way.

Here's my typical example (I think I already posted it in this forum). It was taken handheld with a Hasselblad, 180mm lens, ISO 50 (Velvia) film, EV 13 or around (I don't remember the exact values but they were in that ball park), 1/250 or 1/500th shutter speed for handholdability, f/4 as it was the smallest aperture allowed by the prerequisites.
This picture is sharp enough to be enlarged or, in my case, projected on 2x2 meters.
When watching this image I always find disturbing that the depth of field does not extend to the embankment below the telephone pole, which is a kind of natural resting place for the eyes. (At least to me)
Not being in focus renders it too busy or uneasy. (I lack words to describe my feelings.)
Thoughts?

ic-racer · Oct 3, 2020

Nice example of hand-holding. I would crop foreground out when printing. Maintaining a full frame image only works when maintaining a full frame image works.
Cropping out the foreground will also give the same image a shift-lens would have produced on 6x4.5, without a shift lens.

Pieter12 · Oct 3, 2020

Even if hand-holding a medium format camera might degrade the image sharpness to 35mm quality range, you still have the wonderfully large viewfinder image and negative that allows ample cropping if necessary.

Sirius Glass · Oct 3, 2020

I use ISO 400 film with the Hasselblad 503 CX handheld with the 1/[focal length] limit for the slowest shutter speed and I have never had a problem with sharpness. When I use the Zone System with dense filters, I use a tripod. No big deal, that is what tripods are for and why I have one. If someone cannot take sharp enough photographs handheld then they should use a tripod.

GLS · Oct 3, 2020

Sirius Glass said:
If someone cannot take sharp enough photographs handheld then they should use a tripod.

Agreed. I also think people should refrain from insisting that because they can't reliably take sharp hand-held photos with X lens, Y camera and Z shutter speed, that means nobody can.

RalphLambrecht · Oct 4, 2020

Sirius Glass said:
There are many handholdable MF cameras: Hasselbald, Mamiya TLRs, Rollei SLRs and TLRs for starters.

another vote for t5he Hasselblad V system!

outwest · Oct 5, 2020

I prefer a camera that sits upright in your hand, like a Rolleiflex or a Kowa, rather than across it. I do OK with a Hassie but I do better with the other 2.

wy2l · Oct 5, 2020

My experience with a Pentax67 II is that a tripod is needed. Always.

Alan Edward Klein · Oct 5, 2020

film_man said:
...for which of all the things I wrote? Does it matter really, 1/60 is 1/60 and 1/8 is 1/8 regardless of film or ISO.

You're right. Don't know what I was thinking at the time. I think I was stuck on high speed film. Doesn't high speed film work better at 1/60th then low speed film at 1/60th?

Handholdability of medium format cameras

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