Half-wit with Mamiya C33 + Metz CT5 Needs Help

[jmarsh]

I'm a long-time Mamiya C33 shooter who wanted to try flash, so I bought a Metz CT-5 Meccablitz. I have a user manual but am a little bewildered by it; the instructions for use of the automatic ("C") mode are not clear (to me at any rate), and if I am not mistaken, the manual ("M") mode seems to suggest the following: using Plus-X asa 125, I "have to" set the aperture at f32 and shoot the subject from a distance of five feet / 1.5 meters. Is my assumption correct?

If so, how then does one use this flash for portraits, especially head shots, i.e., with the head filling the viewfinder? Would one have to use a very low speed film such as asa 25?

How then does one set the shutter speed? Presumably one obtains the shutter speed from one's hand-held exposure meter?

If anyone would be so kind as to explain in terms comprehensible to a slow learner at the kindergarten level, including use of the "C' settings, I would be very grateful!!!

 

[Nokton48]

Put the flash on automatic, and you should have a choice of f/stops based on the chart on the flash. Shutter speed does not matter, start with maybe 1/125 or 1/250. It will sync at any speed since it is a leaf shutter. If you choose a slower speed the ambient light will start to record. Make sure you are on X-sync so that the blades are fully open when the strobe fires.

The C33 was always my favorite Mamiya TLR.

 

[MattKing]

For manual mode, you use the dial on the top of the flash to determine what aperture to use for your flash to subject distance and film speed. Just set the ISO and then read the aperture off the dial.
Alternatively, use one of the six available auto modes. The manual describes how to do this, but its tough to explain over the internet how to read the manual and adjust the flash without having the flash in front of both of us.
Here is Mike Butkus' link to the manual - if you use it, I'd recommend sending him his requested donation: http://www.cameramanuals.org/flashes_meters/metz_mecablitz_45_ct_5.pdf
And someone who uses a Mamiya TLR with a Metz 45 series flash isn't a half-wit - you are a full wit

 

[grahamp]

That flashgun is listed with a guide number of 45 (100 ASA/metres), so f32 at 5 feet with 124 ASA for direct flash at full power seems right. I think you will either need auto mode or to cut the light output a bit!

 

[jmarsh]

Matt, I take it you think the Metz with the Mamiya is a bad idea? Why so? Diane Arbus used a similar potato-masher flash (as big, or bigger, than the Metz) with a C33 and she got some pretty interesting results...

 

[jmarsh]

Put the flash on automatic, and you should have a choice of f/stops based on the chart on the flash. Shutter speed does not matter, start with maybe 1/125 or 1/250. It will sync at any speed since it is a leaf shutter. If you choose a slower speed the ambient light will start to record. Make sure you are on X-sync so that the blades are fully open when the strobe fires.

The C33 was always my favorite Mamiya TLR.

 

[MattKing]

Matt, I take it you think the Metz with the Mamiya is a bad idea? Why so? Diane Arbus used a similar potato-masher flash (as big, or bigger, than the Metz) with a C33 and she got some pretty interesting results...

No - full wit is clearly at least twice as good as half-wit
I've been using a Mamiya C330 and Metz 60CT series flashes since the mid 1970s!

 

[jmarsh]

OK, that's good to hear.... I thought maybe it's too powerful....

 

[wiltw]

The Metz 45CT5 seems to be identical to the Metz 45CT4, with the exception that the -CT5 is compatible with the SCA500 modules, while the -CT4 is compatible with the SCA300 modules.

The -CT5 allows you to choose from 6 different lens apertures in Automatic mode. The -CT5 does seem to be somewhat confusing in having multiple 'C' positions on the dial rather than different f/stops ...you have to view the rear display on the -CT5 to see the selected shooting aperture. Similarly the selected ISO value is displayed on the rear display. Unnecessarily complex to accommodate the 'Microcomputer Data System' display on the back of the -CT5...on the -CT4 you just look at the dial markings! In between the f/stop and the ISO values on the display, the -CT5 shows the max flash distance for the selected aperture and ISO combination.

The -CT5 also seems to lack the fractional Manual power settings that are on the -CT4, 'M', 'M/2' and 'M/4', so the -CT5 operates only a Full power mode in Manual.

 

[jmarsh]

Thank you everyone for your very ample replies!

 

[hsandler]

I have this flash. It's great, and its chunky teutonic splendor commands respect.

In manual mode, there is only full power (or low power in the "W" setting), although I've read that Metz made an accessory that would allow you to dial in variable manual power. Anyway, your assumption about "having to" use f32 at 1.5 m for ISO 125 film only means f32 is the aperture you need for a correct exposure at 1.5m with direct (not bounce) flash. Of course you would use a more open aperture at further distances, according to the scale that goes all the way around on the top dial; i.e. f16 at 3m, f8 at 6m etc. You can also use a more open aperture at closer distances using full manual power if you use bounce flash (although bounce from overhead doesn't look good at very close distances), or a diffuser in front of the flash, such as layer of two of tissue paper. I have a dedicated Metz wide-angle diffuser that came with the flash which has a tab that pushes a button on the front of the flash head to automatically adjust the dial on top by 1 stop to account for its presence, so it would require f22 at 1.5m.

The auto settings are much easier most of the time and more flexible. For any of the automatic settings, you set the desired aperture you want on the camera from the 6 choices on the dial, dial it in on the top, and then with either direct or bounce flash, the sensor on the front of the flash is going to read the reflected light and cut off the flash duration when the correct amount of light has been dumped into the scene for that aperture, ISO combination. Like all reflected light metering, it won't be perfect, because it assumes the subject is neutral gray and averages over a wide area. For a headshot filling the frame, it will do well though. Anyway, in the auto mode, the distances shown on the dial opposite your selected aperture are the maximum distances for direct flash, but not the minimum, as the flash power (really-the flash duration) will be adjusted down by the sensor as necessary. The shutter speed doesn't enter into it because the flash dumps all its power in such a short time that it all gets into the camera while the shutter is open, even at 1/500s. So you set the shutter speed you want based on how much of the ambient light in the scene you want to register on the film; i.e. you can use your handheld exposure meter. The shutter won't affect the flash exposure.

The little auxiliary flash tube on the front of the handle is good for fill flash in combination with bounce flash of the main head, but I find it's a little too powerful, so I always leave the little neutral density thingy clipped on to cut its power.

 

[jmarsh]

Thank you, hsandler, for your extremely informative reply --the information you supplied is precisely what I need; I found the user manual a bit baffling As well, your remarks have helped reassure me that the choice of the Metz for use with the Mamiya C33 was a good one; I had suspected it might be too powerful. Thanks a million for taking the time to write!!!

 

[darkroommike]

Of all the flashes I used to shoot wedding I found the Soligor and Metz units to be the more accurate, the Vivitar and Metz units to be the most dependable, so I stuck with the Metz and used the others for fill lights and backups. My big beef with the 45 series was the power options so I eventually opted for a pair of 60 series units.

 

[wiltw]

The little auxiliary flash tube on the front of the handle is good for fill flash in combination with bounce flash of the main head, but I find it's a little too powerful, so I always leave the little neutral density thingy clipped on to cut its power.

'Back in the day' when Metz potato mashers were very commonly used by wedding photographers, most did NOT USE the little wink link, because it defeated the entire purpose of ceiling bounce...softer, lessened shadows. The wink light was a small specular source which cast shadows not created by ceiling bounce!

 

[AgX]

The Metz 45CT5 seems to be identical to the Metz 45CT4, with the exception that the -CT5 is compatible with the SCA500 modules, while the -CT4 is compatible with the SCA300 modules.

There exist no SCA500 modules. It is SCA3000 instead.

 

[hsandler]

'Back in the day' when Metz potato mashers were very commonly used by wedding photographers, most did NOT USE the little wink link, because it defeated the entire purpose of ceiling bounce...softer, lessened shadows. The wink light was a small specular source which cast shadows not created by ceiling bounce!

Here is an example I did of bounce flash with the Metz 45CT-5 (flash bounced off the wall to the left) with the front fill flash (and its little neutral density intensity reducer installed). You can see it's on from the extra catchlight in her eye dead centre. I don't find the fill flash casts extra shadows. In fact, it reduces the contrast of the shadow to the right side cast by the bounced flash. If I had more space, I would have posed my friend further from the wall so that the shadow didn't appear in the photo, but this was at the office with limited flexibility. By the way, this was shot with a TLR at something like 2m distance and about f5.6. The camera is not a Mamiya; it's a Ricoh Diacord. https://flic.kr/p/QV5W7Y

 

[wiltw]

There exist no SCA500 modules. It is SCA3000 instead.

im Gegenteil. Au contraire. Here is a page from the 45CT5 user manual...

The Metz 60CT2 was also an SCA 500 series flash! Notice mention of four specific SCA 500 modules for different cameras, from one of the pages of the 60CT2 user manual...

The SCA 500 modules indeed existed
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Metz-SCA-...60-ct-1-2-45-CT-Mecablitz-flash-/302192993984
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/142307935143?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true

The SCA 3000 followed the SCA 500 modules, which followed the SCA 300 modules.

 

[AgX]

I stand corrected... (I should have looked it up...)

But I got a great deal of Metz stuff including SCA-adapters, never seen it, never heard of it. And in the Metz listing of SCA-adapters it does not show either.

But in my archive I found some information, saying that it was a rare predessor to the SCA 300 system with only limited features.
The SCA 3000 system is their latest one by the way.


The SCA system is difficult anyway. One has to look up in listings what works and whot not, and then compare that to the propriatory flashes and their functions.

 

[wiltw]

But in my archive I found some information, saying that it was a rare predessor to the SCA 300 system with only limited features.
The SCA 3000 system is their latest one by the way.
The SCA system is difficult anyway. One has to look up in listings what works and whot not, and then compare that to the propriatory flashes and their functions.

Yes SCA 500 seems very rare, compared to both SCA 300 and SCA 3000 modules. And you rarely hear about the 60CT2 or 45CT5 flash units.

SCA is 'complex' only because the camera manufacturers themselves created the complexity! For one example, Canon has TTL, ATTL, ETTL and ETTL2 flash. Now imagine being Metz and needing to support each of those modes in its flash units and with the 'personality' modules (SCA modules) to make flash match camera body's capability; plus, simply within the ETTL flash units, Canon has two generations of flash units.
If you are buying while the camera and flash and module are all the 'current' line, it is actually easy. If you are buying on the used market, decades after the products were 'current', it can be complex because finding the old compatability charts from Metz can be difficult and the original owners lost all the documentation provided with the equipment.

While 'complex' it allows me to use the same flash units with an OM-1, and OM-4, a Bronica ETRSi TTL, and even with a Canon digital. But the flash units (45CL3 and 45CL4), not being able to 'preflash', have to be replaced with a different Metz flash (Metz 54MZ) in order to fully support Canon's ETTL-II

 

[AgX]

Well, I got the charts. But then you have to try to find out how far the compatibility goes.

My impression for instance is that for some Canon cameras the compatibility is less than for Nikon models from the same period. And I got no idea why.

Anyway, with prices of used camera-manufacturer flashes so low, the SCA-system (and similar competing systems) seems far less attractive than back then.

 

[wiltw]

Anyway, with prices of used camera-manufacturer flashes so low, the SCA-system (and similar competing systems) seems far less attractive than back then.

I have multiple formats and as a result four brands of cameras, I would have to cope with 4 different brands of dedicated flash units. Not only do I have zero desire to own so many units, as they take up space, but then one also has different charge cords and/or battery packs and modifiers, plus needing to keep the UI straight for each. And for anyone shooting professionally (as I did) one needs to have two or more of each! A single Canon 580EX is $480. No, thanks!

 

[MattKing]

My 60CT2 works great with the 520 adapter and my OM2n and OM2s. I wonder if it will work with my OM4T?

 

[AgX]

My 60CT2 works great with the 520 adapter and my OM2n and OM2s. I wonder if it will work with my OM4T?

Sorry for the late reply...

The most modern SCA adapter for all analog Olympus cameras that take a dedicated flash is type 321.
With the OM4 it will yield TTL control.

 

[darkroommike]

'Back in the day' when Metz potato mashers were very commonly used by wedding photographers, most did NOT USE the little wink link, because it defeated the entire purpose of ceiling bounce...softer, lessened shadows. The wink light was a small specular source which cast shadows not created by ceiling bounce!

The so called "wink light" is useful for filling in shadowed eye sockets.

 

[AgX]

The 2nd (fill-in) reflector has an output of a fraction of the main reflector. However that output ratio is fixed.
Thus if the main reflector is aimed for bounce-light from a far away ceiling that ratio can be rather low.
I guess such is what wiltw is referring too. (One can reduce though the 2nd reflector output by an ND filter.)