GREAT GLYCIN!

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MurrayMinchin

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Hi there,

My source for Glycin recently raised its price from $22.50 US, to $40.00 US for 100 grams. Besides Photographers Formulary (PF), where else in the World can it be found? Does PF actually make it themselves, or do they buy it in bulk from somebody else? What company would that be?

I came to use a Glycin/Metol print developer because I am a beligerant guy when it comes to photography. I "got serious" after moving up to 4x5 - I ran all my tests and spent a couple years gaining experience on the original Zone VI Brilliant graded papers, using a cold light. When they "improved" it and gave us Brilliant II, I found that what once printed on grade 2 with normal print developer/dilution/time now needed to be on grade 1 in a combination of Selectol Soft and Zone VI developers. Beligerance made me change paper manufacturers rather than change my negatives normal developer/dilution/time...Ilford Galerie grade 2 matched the original Brilliant grade 2.

When I switched to variable contrast I was seduced by the Zone VI VC head. My first prints were horrifyingly heinous in that the contrast was EXTREME! There was no way I was going to change now after over 20 years of developing my negatives the same way! I was determined to get my "perfect test negative" (dark rock, wet log, grass, flowing near-white water) to print with the Soft light and Hard light at equal settings.

The answer in the end was...Multigrade IV fibre based glossy paper...a CC40Y filter below the light source...a glass negative carrier (the green cast of the glass was worth about a 1/2 grade reduction)...a Glycin/Metol developer with 30ml of 2% Benzatriazole per litre of stock solution, and 3 minutes in Selenium toner at 1:10.

I was happily surprised to discover a few things about Glycin:

1) With other developing agents I've used, after full development is reached all the print densities darken at about the same rate. With Glycin in the mix the darks get darker proportionaly faster than the lights. A great help in fine tuning contrast.

2) Legs...like marathon legs...like soloing Everest at a trot without bottled oxygen legs. Because health issues got in the way this year, I left my used working solution (in a mylar wine bag) for 6 months. Its light honey colour hadn't changed. The test negative at standard print contrast/exposure and standard print processing was identical to one made 6 months before. (I use the emergence time -ET- of the negatives clear edge multiplied by a factor to determine development time...Glycin slows the ET to allow using the negatives clear edge). When fresh ET is 42 seconds @ 72 degrees. I mix new working solution when ET reaches 55 seconds.

3) Life ever lasting in stock solution. Since I ran out of Glycin before I could find a new source, I mixed up a batch of 26 month (!) old stock solution that had been pushed into a corner. I've used it for a couple printing sessions and so far it's behaving normally.

4) Trying to get Glycin to dissolve in water is like trying to herd cats. It dissolves easily when added after the other ingredients in a formula.

5) The colour, quality, life in my prints has never been better.

So you see...I am really interested in finding out where in the World the stuff comes from!!!!!!

Murray
 

Adrian Twiss

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MurrayMinchin said:
Hi there,

My source for Glycin recently raised its price from $22.50 US, to $40.00 US for 100 grams. Murray

ONLY $40.00US for 100 grams. Try $109.64 for 10 (yes TEN) grams in the United Kingom.
 

m. dowdall

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Murry

You can get Glycin at JD Fotochem in Montreal. They have Glycin for $22.50US/100g. Here's their web site.

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Glycin based print developer is my favorite as well, it just keeps going. I rarely throw any out. Just keep topping up the 2 litre pop bottle we use. I take care of the darkroom at the camera club I go to. Last year (2003/2004) I mixed up the developer in September and used it through to August. It got tossed because it had sat for more than a month and I wanted to start fresh. We mix it with Dektol and potassium carbonate to make Ansco 130 (well close enough). I got the idea from a post by Richard Knoppow on anther forum. I find mixing glycin becomes much easier if it ground into a fine powder before it's added to the solution.

Michael
 

john_s

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$96(AUS) per 100g here in Oz. Equals $76US or Euro57.

But if it lasts so well, maybe that's cheap.

I have too many expensive hobbies to use such exotic chemicals, but is it really that good?
 

Ole

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john_s said:
I have too many expensive hobbies to use such exotic chemicals, but is it really that good?

Yes, it is. Ansco 130 lasts forever, and FX-2 is the best stand developer yet made. That one doesn't last forever, but the stock solution lasts for at least six months.
 

jim appleyard

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m. dowdall said:
Murry

You can get Glycin at JD Fotochem in Montreal. They have Glycin for $22.50US/100g. Here's their web site.

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Glycin based print developer is my favorite as well, it just keeps going. I rarely throw any out. Just keep topping up the 2 litre pop bottle we use. I take care of the darkroom at the camera club I go to. Last year (2003/2004) I mixed up the developer in September and used it through to August. It got tossed because it had sat for more than a month and I wanted to start fresh. We mix it with Dektol and potassium carbonate to make Ansco 130 (well close enough). I got the idea from a post by Richard Knoppow on anther forum. I find mixing glycin becomes much easier if it ground into a fine powder before it's added to the solution.

Michael



The price is quite good, but what about the shipping charges to the US? That could potentially add quite a bit to the cost.

Also, be aware of the airborn ultra-fine dust that powdered glycin becomes after you grind it up.
 
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MurrayMinchin

MurrayMinchin

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Hi guys,

I'm so sorry that it's that expensive in Australia...and what's going on in the UK? Why so expensive there? I smell a conspiracy!

m. dowdall said:
You can get Glycin at JD Fotochem in Montreal. They have Glycin for $22.50US/100g. Here's their web site.

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Thanks Michael, but I tried to order some last week from them; Claire told me that they raised the price, but didn't change the price on their website yet...that sucks.

Who makes the stuff? There must be more than one manufacturer. I've found it called Glycin, Glycine, N-methyl-4-hydroxyphenylglycine, C8H9NO3, and the ever popular p-hydroxyphenylglycine. The problem is that the pharmecutical form of Glycin is apparently readily available, but completely useless as a developing agent.

Where's our Inside Snitch? Someone knows the truth...fess up...it'll feel sooooo good!

Murray
 

Jordan

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The "nomenclature" of glycin is tricky due to the close similarity of its name to glycine. I got really confused at first too. So here's a guide:

(a) GLYCIN is (N-para-hydroxyphenyl)aminoacetic acid, C8H9NO3, a derivative of p-aminophenol (imagine substituting -CH2COOH on the nitrogen of p-aminophenol). Just like p-aminophenol (used in Rodinal) and p-methylaminophenol (Metol) it is useful as a developing agent

(b) GLYCINE is 2-aminoacetic acid, C2H5NO2, the most basic of the amino acids that make up proteins. It is a basic starting material in organic chemistry and very cheap. It has no redox chemistry that is useful in photography and does not act as a developer. This is probably what Murray means by the "pharmaceutical form".

I would add that if it is pure, $40 for 100g is very inexpensive as organic chemicals go. How much do you need for each batch of developer?
 
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MurrayMinchin

MurrayMinchin

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Thanks for the clarification Jordan.

There's 15 grams in a litre of stock solution in the formula I use. Considering how long it lasts, it's still cheap at $40.00 US for 100 grams...but have I mentioned that I'm beligerant? Maybe I should just keep my mouth shut and not let PF know how much this stuff is really worth in the long run and order some from them, Customs handeling fee's and all.

Murray
 

Claire Senft

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Techcheminc

I have just emailed Mr Robert schraeder at Techcheminc to see if they can supply Glycin and what would be his price structure for this chemical. Techcheminc does not least Glycin in its catalog. However, they invite requests for unlisted chemicals Techcheminc, a firm located in Missouri, is a supplier of photo chemicals. They also have targeted the xray chemical market. I have placed only one order with them. It was handled to my complete satisfaction. The prices were much lower than those of Photographer's Formulary. I will provide the information from his response on this thread.
 
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MurrayMinchin

MurrayMinchin

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Hi Claire,

That sounds like it has potential...it would be interesting to find out what their minimum amount is and how much that costs, divided by the number of us that are willing to buy some. Please keep us posted.

Murray
 

Claire Senft

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Will leave you know.

When i find out I will leave you know. I will not even mention artistic statements. Such self control. I am proud of me.
 
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MurrayMinchin

MurrayMinchin

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I agree...Glycin's Goodness is more important than our ego's!

Murray
 

Adrian Twiss

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Murray

I asked Rayco Chemicals (probably the biggest supplier of raw chemicals in the UK) the same question. Apparently its to do with shipping restrictions over hear. The US is far less restrictive. Interestingly I cannot get Edwal Ultrablack over here because you cant ship liquid chemicals internationally. Also If I want 5 litres of Dektol liquid concentrate I have to go to the shop and pick it up myself. I can, however, get 2.5 litres of dilute sulphuric acid (10% strength) posted to me.
 
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MurrayMinchin

MurrayMinchin

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Apparently this idea of finding another source for Glycin has been farting around for a while. I found a post in another forum from 1999 where a fellow from Artcraft Chemicals was going to look into making the stuff...I guess that idea fizzled.

Does anybody have a copy of Hawley's Condensed Chemical Dictionary kicking around from their University chemistry days? It is supposed to have specific information in regards to photo Glycin.

Murray
 
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MurrayMinchin

MurrayMinchin

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How do you go back and edit an earlier post? I'm sorry to say I screwed up!

15 ml of 2% Benzotriazole goes into each litre of stock solution, not 30ml as I stated in my first post...sorry...head hung in shame...will try be SURE of things in the future...

Murray
 

ongarine

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For all the Europeans.....could you indicate a good source for Glycin and photo chemicals here in the Old continent?
Thanks
Daniele
 

rjr

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Daniele,

many of us in Germany buy from Gerhard Neubauer, "Genec", in Muenster.

He is regarded as the "cheapest", his prices and shipping costs are fair, his service is fast.
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This is the complete pricelist:
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The "leftovers" at discount prices:
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According to that Glycin

LL 2043 4-Hydroxyphenylaminoessigsäure; Syn.: p-Hydroxyphenylglycin, Glycin-Entwicklersubstanz (Lieferzeit: ca. 6 Wochen)

costs 23,72EUR/50g plus 10EUR or so shipping within the EU.

Downside - you need to speak German and know the specific german chemical titles.

But I remember reading you at the fotoimpex-Forum in German, so I take it is no problem for you. ;-)

If I need some stuff fast, I drove to a local reseller, http://www.koehlerchemie.de/

They can order everything.

Finally, the third, Omikron Online.

http://www.omikron-online.de/cyberchem/

Never ordered from them, and their prices aren´t that favourable if compared to the others.
 
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MurrayMinchin

MurrayMinchin

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Hi Michael,

No I have'nt ordered any yet. The 26 month old stock solution I mixed up (which is still behaving normally) should last over 2 months at my current rate of darkroom production, so the pressure is off.

I think I'll be ordering Glycin from Photographers Formulary next time. Since they are the only manufacturers of the stuff (at least in North America), I'll pay the GST, Customs handling fees and shipping...it'll still be cheaper than JD Photochem and it'll be coming straight from the source.

Murray
 
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MurrayMinchin

MurrayMinchin

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Update:

Emailed my order to Photographers Formulary on March 19th.
Order was shipped on the 21st.
For 100 grams Glycin...$18.95 US.
Shipping $9.00 US for USPS Global Prioirty Mail.
Got here today, March 29.
There was no Customs fees, handling charges, or taxes added on.

That means it got here in 10 days, and Canadian Postal workers just had Friday and Monday off for Easter!

Murray
 
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