Great beginners article on Zone System and Sunny 16

[Eric Rose]

We often get new members asking very basic questions about the zone system. This would be a great article to "sticky" in this forum.

I'm am sure there are those that will want to get all picky about this or that in the article. All I can say is give it a rest. It's an article meant for beginners and it will help them get going. They can learn the fine point later.

https://emulsive.org/articles/guide...sunny-16-and-the-zone-system-at-the-same-time

 

[Pioneer]

Thanks. I'm always and forever a beginner.

 

[Donald Qualls]

That's a very useful article -- which boils down to "how to use exposure compensation sensibly." It's not really about Zone -- it's about compensating Sunny 16 for conditions and scene contrast. As such, it's a very useful article, especially for people who (for instance) only shoot roll film, so can't fully use Zone System anyway (individual expansions and contractions, the second major control of Zone, are really only applicable with sheet film).

 

[Paul Howell]

I agree with Donald, the author did not use the Zone System to it full usefulness, expose for the shadow develop for the highlights, control as many of the factors as possible. Shooting roll film, test for E.I or personal film speed based on film, developer, and any issues with shutter and meter, meter for shadows, develop and use VC paper and filters to control for highlights. The author did not discuss how he metered , spot meter or average meter up close?

 

[koraks]

The author did not discuss how he metered , spot meter or average meter up close?

Given that it's also about sunny 16, I'm going out on a limb and offer that perhaps no meter was involved whatsover.

 

[Paul Howell]

Your right, it's a mash up of the two systems, not a head to head.

 

[Eric Rose]

There I changed the title so you technical tooties can now rest.

Sometimes I wonder why I even bother posting anything here.

 

[ic-racer]

I have asked in the past why Phototrio does not have a dedicated FILM BEGINNER HELP section.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

Sunny 16 lovers might find this article interesting and helpful:

https://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/train_your_brainto_guess_.html

 

[Vaughn]

I don't really like the article much. Conflates two exposure methods in a way that does neither much good, IMO, of course. Not badly written -- terribly presented, but that's the medium.

Not written for the beginner...early intermediate level perhaps...except for the beginners that are geeks, I suppose. I would never give it to a student to read.

I appreciate the advice I once got. If shooting roll film and you have captured something that is truly important and needs something other than one's normal development, stop right there, advance the film to the end, and write on it the development needs of that image (unless you finish the roll is the same light as the treasured image). Put in a new roll and continue photographing. At this point, 'saving' film is a false economy.

 

[guangong]

I have asked in the past why Phototrio does not have a dedicated FILM BEGINNER HELP section.

Short answer. Because know-it-all’s would soon reduce it into a quagmire of minutiae. But you already know that, since I assume your question was rhetorical.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Totally incomprehensable article.

 

[ic-racer]

Short answer. Because know-it-all’s would soon reduce it into a quagmire of minutiae. But you already know that, since I assume your question was rhetorical.

Actually no. The "exposure discussion" area is for evidence-based discourse on film and its response to light. Beginners won't understand most of it. A 'beginner's' section would be for educators and the like.

 

[ic-racer]

The original poster commented the linked article was for beginners. So, no criticism of the link's contents in a "HELP" forum is valid without an equal or better contribution on the topic in the PhotoTrio RESOURCES section. Just posting the linked article is not based on facts or does not make sense is "not helpful' to anyone.

 

[grain elevator]

Well intended, but it's too complicated for beginners.
It only uses zones as a heuristic device, which is fine and useful, but not what the title promises. Not much of the zone system is used. I think this (sensible adjustments to S16 exposure) could have been explained simpler without zones.
The following is a bit off:
"both Sunny 16 and the Zone system work from the same base, namely a known value of reflectance: the 18% grey card".
A few sentences down:
"The Sunny 16 method cuts out the grey card".

 

[Vaughn]

I get the feeling it was written specifically to have ads around it.

 

[Eric Rose]

This site has become a cesspool of egos. Good bye!! I gave Photrio close to a 1 year hiatus. I should have stayed away.

 

[Vaughn]

Sorry we disagreed with you so politely. Some of us have been involved with photo education for decades...we might have a good idea of what a beginner needs, what may confuse them, and how best to approach such things as understanding how film 'sees', etc.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Just a waste of film with endless repetitive useless testing.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Just a waste of film with endless repetitive useless testing.

Or, alternatively, a way to know your materials (film, developers, paper) and tools (lenses, shutters, meters) well enough to get that once in a lifetime shot with the one side of a film holder left on the last day of your vacation. Even at today's prices (seemingly no worse than fifty years ago, in relation to the real cost of living), film is cheap compared to lost opportunities.

 

[warden]

Wow, from the beginning to the end of that article I count 13 ads.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Wow, from the beginning to the end of that article I count 13 ads.

I missed them all by using AdBlock Plus for Firefox.

 

[pentaxuser]

Thanks for the link Eric. Our problem may be that as we are not beginners we may be less capable of judging such articles through beginner's eyes so we are hardly in the best position to judge the value of the article to beginners.

Links like this can be a valuable resource. Most newcomers today as opposed to 30/40 years ago are not going to reach out for the likes of "The Negative" when they need a source that can improve their results

pentaxuser

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Thanks for the link Eric. Our problem may be that as we are not beginners we may be less capable of judging such articles through beginner's eyes so we are hardly in the best position to judge the value of the article to beginners.

Links like this can be a valuable resource. Most newcomers today as opposed to 30/40 years ago are not going to reach out for the likes of "The Negative" when they need a source that can improve their results

pentaxuser

It's a hodgepodge. I've been shooting decades, understand Sunny 16 and while I never used the Zone system, I have a general idea of it. But the article is incomprehensible in the way it was written. If I can't understand his point and what he's talking about, how is a beginner?

 

[Rick A]

Wow, didn't take long before the worlds foremost authorities poo-poo'd this. Get a life.
Thank you for taking the time to post this Eric, and for thinking it would help some people, much appreciated.