Graflex and Shooting 3.25x4.25, as well as Graflok 23 back

[braxus]

First off I already have a Graflex Speed Graphic 4x5 camera. Im not sure, but I think it has the Graflok back on it for 4x5. See pictures shown here for confirmation.

Im wondering about shooting 3.25 x 4.25 film. I think Dan Fromm said the 2x3, 3x4, and 4x5 Graflex cameras all have different sizes, so backs wont interchange. Is there any adapter or film holder that allows the smaller 3.25x4.25 film to fit inside a 4x5 back? Or should I basically just bite the bullet and buy a cheap used 3x4 Graflex camera? I assume the lens boards would interchange between 3x4 and 4x5 cameras? Andy on here suggested taping the film inside a 4x5 film holder, but then the tape is in the image area, and centering the film would be an issue. Just wondering what my options are on here.

Secondly for my 4x5 Graflex, they sell used Graflok 23 backs for 4x5 that can use 120 film in 6x9 format. Would this work on my Speed Graphic with no issues? And what is the procedure to use that back on my camera every time I want to take a shot? Does the whole back have to come off the camera to attach the 23 board and film container?

Using the 120 back on the 4x5 camera, am I going to lose some image sharpness using 4x5 lenses instead of dedicated medium format camera lenses like the Fuji GW690?

Also curious- is there such a thing as a 6x12/6x17 back with 120 film for 4x5 cameras?

Any thoughts reach out. Maybe Dan Fromm has some ideas.

 

[abruzzi]

I can't really help on the 3x4 stuff, but your back is definitly graflok compatible. I'm sure that Graphic made 2x3 backs for the 4x5 cameras, but so have a lot of other companies--I have two Horseman 6x9 roll film backs that fit 4x5 graflok cameras. I assume they will work on Graphics, though i've only used them on Linhof, Sinar, and Arca Swiss cameras.

As for the lenses, I do hear people making the point that lenses for large format don't have the resolving power of lenses for smaller format. I don't know that I've encountered issues, but I don't really need extreme sharpness. In the end I think its going to be dependant on your specific lenses. If you want you can get some view camera lenses intended for 6x9 instead of 4x5. Something like the 150mm Apo Ronar, or the Nikkor-M 105mm. Both are quite good in my experience.

EDIT: I'll add to the question of sharpness--A Fuji fixed lens 6x9 camera can force alignment in design, whereas any vie camera has a number of areas where problems can creep in including: is the GG at the exact same plane as the fim, or is the front standard perfectly parallel with the film plane, RF focusing might be easier in dark environs than GG focusing with an ƒ9 lens. So there are areas where the Fuji may have some advantages.

 

[braxus]

DaYi 6x17 Roll Film Holder for 4x5 View Cameras. I see this as an option for my camera. Now whether you can find one when Im ready to buy is in question. I see a couple kits on Ebay for around a grand Canadian.



And this video helped too.

 

[blee1996]

Why do you want to "shooting 3.25 x 4.25 film" in a 4x5 camera? There is only one fresh emulsion available for 3.25x4.25 in the US: Fomapan 100 and not every store carries it. There are vastly more selection in 4x5 film emulsion, and cheaper than 3.25x4.25 per sheet. Unless you have a large stash of 3.25x4.25 film, I wouldn't bother.

 

[Dan Fromm]

Hmm. Graflex' own roll holders for 4x5 cameras will attach to any 4x5 camera that has a Graflok or International back. As far as I know, they'll attach without issues.

abruzzi, to the best of my knowledge Graflex never made a 2x3 back to fit a 4x5 Graflex or Graphic.

OP, for a 6x17 roll holder to work on a 4x5 camera it must be mounted behind the camera's film plane. This done with an, um, extension tube. The added extension has several effects. It reduces the longest focal length that can be used. It increases the shortest focal length that can be used. And vignetting by the camera's own back reduces the range of focal lengths that can be used. If you want to shoot 6x17 get a 5x7 camera that will accept the 6x17 roll holder you select or get a dedicated 6x17 camera.

 

[braxus]

OP, for a 6x17 roll holder to work on a 4x5 camera it must be mounted behind the camera's film plane. This done with an, um, extension tube. The added extension has several effects. It reduces the longest focal length that can be used. It increases the shortest focal length that can be used. And vignetting by the camera's own back reduces the range of focal lengths that can be used. If you want to shoot 6x17 get a 5x7 camera that will accept the 6x17 roll holder you select or get a dedicated 6x17 camera.

The DaYi has an extended back further away from the original film plane, as the ground glass attachment shows. They did mention lenses that could be used, but I only want wide to semi normal anyway. They said 90mm wide to 150mm (which) was on the long range as the max.

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[reddesert]

First off I already have a Graflex Speed Graphic 4x5 camera. Im not sure, but I think it has the Graflok back on it for 4x5. See pictures shown here for confirmation.

Im wondering about shooting 3.25 x 4.25 film. I think Dan Fromm said the 2x3, 3x4, and 4x5 Graflex cameras all have different sizes, so backs wont interchange. Is there any adapter or film holder that allows the smaller 3.25x4.25 film to fit inside a 4x5 back? Or should I basically just bite the bullet and buy a cheap used 3x4 Graflex camera? I assume the lens boards would interchange between 3x4 and 4x5 cameras? Andy on here suggested taping the film inside a 4x5 film holder, but then the tape is in the image area, and centering the film would be an issue. Just wondering what my options are on here.

Secondly for my 4x5 Graflex, they sell used Graflok 23 backs for 4x5 that can use 120 film in 6x9 format. Would this work on my Speed Graphic with no issues? And what is the procedure to use that back on my camera every time I want to take a shot? Does the whole back have to come off the camera to attach the 23 board and film container?

Using the 120 back on the 4x5 camera, am I going to lose some image sharpness using 4x5 lenses instead of dedicated medium format camera lenses like the Fuji GW690?

Also curious- is there such a thing as a 6x12/6x17 back with 120 film for 4x5 cameras?

Any thoughts reach out. Maybe Dan Fromm has some ideas.

You have a Graflok back on that camera. There is a description of how to use it on Graflex.org, in short: push the chrome sliders at top and bottom to the further-out position. Then depress the chrome spring bars attached to the focus panel+hood. You can now slide the focus panel sideways a little and remove it from the camera. A roll film holder for 4x5 cameras such as a Graflex RH-8 will now fit into the space where the focus panel was, and you slide the chrome sliders "in" to secure it.

I don't believe there's any trivial way to shoot 3x4 film in a 4x5 Graphic. Generally, 3x4 film is/was limited availability and 3x4 cameras and holders go begging because of that, so you should just get those on the cheap if you need to use 3x4 film. I do not know if 3x4 Graphics have the same lensboard as 4x5 Graphics and would not assume that. Do you have a 4x5 Pacemaker Graphic (front standard tilts back, stamped metal board), and is there a 3x4 Pacemaker Graphic?

The way to shoot 6x12 in such a camera is to get a 6x12 back like DaYi or Shenhao. A bit primitive but fits the Graflok back attachment. 6x17 extension backs on a 4x5 camera is a kludge, like using an RV to drive around in a crowded Whole Foods parking lot.

People get all wound up about the question of maximum resolving power of LF lenses versus MF lenses, and generally I think there are other things to worry about. If one wants to shoot at f/4, get an MF lens, and perhaps ideally a rigid MF camera (alignment, film flatness). If one is ok shooting at f/11-16, that helps smooth out a lot of LF-related issues.

 

[abruzzi]

I have to agree, unless someone is offereing you a box of 3x4 Panatomic X, or some other long discontinued film you love, 3x4 doesn't seem to be worth the hassle. 4x5 has the most availability of any sheet film format, almost as much availability as 120 film (but lacking a couple of my key favorites like Acros II).

 

[BAC1967]

I have a Crown Graphic 4X5 and 3X4, the lens boards are not interchangeable. The 3X4 boards are slightly smaller. The lens boards can be hard to find. The 3X4 cameras are usually quite affordable. If you get one make sure it comes with a lens board and film holders. I made some lens boards by making a plastic mold from the one I had. that's whats on this camera.

Crown Graphic 34 by Bryan Chernick, on Flickr

 

[braxus]

I take it by your comment the lens boards between 3x4 and 4x5 cameras are a different size?

 

[Dan Fromm]

I take it by your comment the lens boards between 3x4 and 4x5 cameras are a different size?

According to the Bible, 10th edition, Pacemaker Graphic lens board sizes are:

2x3: 2 1/2" x 2 1/2"
3x4: 3 3/16" x 3 19/64"
4x5: 3 23/32" x 3 21/32"

 

[darkroommike]

First off I already have a Graflex Speed Graphic 4x5 camera. Im not sure, but I think it has the Graflok back on it for 4x5. See pictures shown here for confirmation.

Im wondering about shooting 3.25 x 4.25 film. I think Dan Fromm said the 2x3, 3x4, and 4x5 Graflex cameras all have different sizes, so backs wont interchange. Is there any adapter or film holder that allows the smaller 3.25x4.25 film to fit inside a 4x5 back? Or should I basically just bite the bullet and buy a cheap used 3x4 Graflex camera? I assume the lens boards would interchange between 3x4 and 4x5 cameras? Andy on here suggested taping the film inside a 4x5 film holder, but then the tape is in the image area, and centering the film would be an issue. Just wondering what my options are on here.

Secondly for my 4x5 Graflex, they sell used Graflok 23 backs for 4x5 that can use 120 film in 6x9 format. Would this work on my Speed Graphic with no issues? And what is the procedure to use that back on my camera every time I want to take a shot? Does the whole back have to come off the camera to attach the 23 board and film container?

Using the 120 back on the 4x5 camera, am I going to lose some image sharpness using 4x5 lenses instead of dedicated medium format camera lenses like the Fuji GW690?

Also curious- is there such a thing as a 6x12/6x17 back with 120 film for 4x5 cameras?

Any thoughts reach out. Maybe Dan Fromm has some ideas.

I shoot multiple formats, and have a 3x4 (3.25x4.25 is too much work to write out) and several 4x5s, too. I also have roll film backs to fit 4x5, 3x4, and 2x3 Graphic cameras. You have probably already figured out the Graflex made both Graflok and Graflex backs for their cameras and the backs in a specif format size can be swapped out. Backs are different sizes and so are the lensboards (my 3D printer could make lensboards I just have to make a printable 3x4 board program, first, another project, yay me).

If I didn't love 3x4 cameras so much (the first press camera I owned was a 3x4 and you always remember your first) I would skip 3x4t altogether since film and accessories can be so darned expensive and hard to find. Currently the only 3x4 film available is Shanghai and Ilford through ULF though you will see Foma in that size occasionally. But OUCH it costs more per sheet than 4x5 so my S.O.P. is to buy cheaper 4x5 film and cut it down in the dark. It might be possible to find a 3x4 Graflok back and mount it to an adapter to fit a 4x5 camera but a 3x4 camera might be your only option to buy a back.

You can buy Graflex cameras, when I say "Graflex" I mean a Graflex SLR, or Graphic cameras; the Graphic cameras are the press cameras also made by Graflex. Graflex and Graflex holders are different shapes and also not interchangeable. There are also different generations of each type, enough to make a collector super happy.

6x12 camera backs using 120 film will fit a 4x5 Graflok back (Graflok is aka an International back) a 6x17 roll film back exists but will not fit a 4x5 back unless you first add a truncated pyramid to the Graflok back since THAT image is wider than a 4x5 camera is long. Some 6x17 roll backs work great on 5x7 "international" backs.

 

[Pioneer]

I learned a longgg time ago that Graflex is a hobby all to itself and can occupy huge amounts of my time. From my experience most of my 2x3 cameras need 2x3 accessories. Likewise 4x5. After fiddling with 2x3 to get it working I never tried 3x4.

But I will say this much. The only large format camera I own that will happily bounce across the desert for hours on the rear rack of my 4-wheeler and still be working when get where I need to be is my Crown Graphic. And it has done it more times than I can count.

I have even had tripods fall apart into non-repairable pieces when subjected to that kind of abuse for a couple hours.

I do keep my Optar lens and shutter all nicely wrapped in bubble wrap in my vest pocket but the camera?? Nahh. It handles all of it.

That is one tough Hombre.