Got a Agfa Record II today

[unwantedfocus]

I thought about getting a 6x9 folder for a long time since I never shot 6x9. Today my new addition arrived a Agfa Record II (30 euros with shipping). From pictures its seems not a bad camera and a cheap excuse if I don't like the format. There was also haze on the lens but it seems like only from the outside I wiped it down quickly with a lens wipe and it looks like nearly all came off. The bellows look fine but who knows....

There was also a brochure in the carry on bag called "Agfa Phototips" unfortunately it is only in German, however I scanned it and will link it below for download.

Spoiler: More images

Spoiler: Agfa Phototips brochure German

Agfa_Phototips_German_compressed.pdf

 

[Don_ih]

Question #1 to ask about Agfa cameras: has the green grease turned to crazy-glue? If it has, the camera will not focus. The shutter might work perfectly, but that grease is pure evil. I have a Speedex - very similar to what you have - and I had to soak the helicoid in solvent for two or three weeks before I could get it apart.

 

[baachitraka]

Yes. I have two isoletties (II and III) with Solinar f/3.5 75mm lens and both are frozen and as well as the rangerfinder.

It's needs a complete CLA and new bellows.

In the past I have with Apotars and Solinars and Solinars are sharp but Apotars have lot of character.

 

[Don_ih]

new bellows

That's Question #2 regarding Agfa cameras: How many holes are in the corners of the parchment-thin paper bellows? Easily the worst bellows of any camera that I've seen.

The lenses are all so good, too.

 

[baachitraka]

Good replacement bellow is the way to go instead of counting the pinholes and there are many to count...

Lenses are good and I can go a head to call them outstanding esp., Solinar

Despite it's flaws I still look for Isoletties and they are compact, lovely foldable cameras indeed.

 

[Don_ih]

they are compact, lovely foldable cameras indeed

They really are. Once working, they're great to carry around and use.

 

[unwantedfocus]

Question #1 to ask about Agfa cameras: has the green grease turned to crazy-glue? If it has, the camera will not focus. The shutter might work perfectly, but that grease is pure evil. I have a Speedex - very similar to what you have - and I had to soak the helicoid in solvent for two or three weeks before I could get it apart.

Yes the focus ring is stuck, I guess exactly what you described !!! the bellows look still okay surprisingly good to be honest but I guess since I have to un-grease it somehow new bellows would not be a bad idea, for how much do they go normally?? Would it be a good idea to clean the lens with hydrogen peroxide if I won't get the haze fully removed? Asking because of the coating.

Spoiler: More images of the Bellows

 

[itsdoable]

...There was also a brochure in the carry on bag called "Agfa Phototips" unfortunately it is only in German, however I scanned it and will link it below for download....

Google Translate app on the phone is great:

 

[unwantedfocus]

Great idea with google translate!!!

I was able to unstuck the focus, its kinda loose but should be enough for a Testroll

 

[Don_ih]

I was able to unstuck the focus, its kinda loose but should be enough for a Testroll

Agfa front-focus lenses are deceptive. It may feel like it's focusing but the helicoid is likely fused and actually turning along with the front element. It takes serious solvents to dissolve that green grease.

I don't know about the bellows price. Probably more than you spent on the camera. So, if there are no holes (check with a flashlight), my opinion is you should keep them as they are.

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

I was able to unstuck the focus, its kinda loose but should be enough for a Testroll

Ah, that's not so good... It is pretty typical, though, for Agfa cameras - what's happened is the whole of the front group has come loose from its mounting threads. The confirmation of this is that the focusing ring moves in and out a very small amount as it is focused from close-as-it-can-get to infinity. If the helical is working correctly the focusing ring should move by a good 3mm.

If the lens is rotating on the mounting threads then make a score mark between the focusing ring - the part that says 'Apotar' - and the front of the lens cell. Then undo the three small screws that hold the focusing ring in place. You should then be able to slip off the focusing ring and then unscrew the front group.

Make another score mark between the two parts of the front group, take a photo also - the front helical has multiple threads and you need to get it back together using the same threads.

Now begins the wonderful experience of getting the helical unstuck. If you are lucky then it might come loose under persuasion, try running it under hot tap water to help soften the goo. If unlucky then prepare for an ordeal of long soaks in solvent, try 'lacquer thinner' to start - it's denatured alcohol and other stuff.

After you have gotten it apart, and the helicoid cleaned out, lubricate the helicoid threads with Dow High Vacuum Grease https://www.amazon.com/Corning-High...ords=high+vacuum+grease&qid=1620524618&sr=8-3
or #10 helicoid grease, also available from Amazon.

Screw the helicoid back together - it will probably take several tries until you can find the right threads so the score marks and the picture match. Screw the front group in the shutter/aperture assembly, screw it in tight. Then mount the focusing ring on the front group, line up the front score marks and tighten the three small screws.

You can check the focus by stretching some scotch tape across the film rails and looking at the image with a loupe.

 

[unwantedfocus]

If the helical is working correctly the focusing ring should move by a good 3mm.

Thank you for all the information, I would need to service it anyway since the long shutter speeds 1/2 second and 1 second are not moving correctly, they are kind of stuck.

The focus ring moves in and out and it looks like it is about 3mm.

When I unstuck the focus ring the indicator was on 6 and I really slowly turned it to not break it. I went to infinity and then the whole way back to the M position. The front element is moving with the focus ring, is this the correct way or is the helical stuck when the lens rotates with the focus ring? I'm slightly confused.

Spoiler: Images

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

That doesn't look like enough movement.

The following are from a 6x9 Zeiss Nettar with a 105mm Novar lens. I don't have an Agfa 6x9, but the cameras are similar and the lenses are both front element focusing triplets. The top photo is at infinity, the bottom is at 'm' (a wee bit closer than 1.5 meters).

You can check the close focus by stretching some frosted tape across the film rails and seeing if the image is sharp.

 

[takilmaboxer]

I have one of these that has a new bellows and a CLA from Jurgen (Certo6). It works great and the blue bellows is gorgeous!
But I also have a Zeiss Mess Ikonta 524/2 from Certo6, and it works better and has an accurate, uncoupled rangefinder, so it gets used more.
Agfa bellows pinholes and frozen focus...been there, done that... that's why I went with Certo6.

 

[Dan Daniel]

The front element is moving with the focus ring, is this the correct way or is the helical stuck when the lens rotates with the focus ring? I'm slightly confused.

To answer this question, the front element should move when you rotate the focus ring. The focus ring is attached to the front element, usually by three set screws in the side of the focus ring. The idea is that yes, the front element moves away from the second element as you focus closer.

There is a slight chance that both the front element AND the second element behind it are coming out as a unit. This is not good. When the lens is extended- 'M' or so- look inside under the focus ring. You should see a smooth metal ring tucked up to the shutter block. When you focus, this ring should remain stationary. You may (but most likely not) see the front element mounting moving at the top edge of the metal ring. But again, the smooth metal ring should remain stationary.

If you are getting just the front element moving, consider yourself lucky. This means that the element will separate, you can scrape out the old cement nee grease, and relube and reassemble (a process with its own demands, so ask before unscrewing all the way, take notes and photos, or send it out).

 

[unwantedfocus]

I went to shoot a test roll here is what happened.

First of all the form factor of the camera is amazing. And it takes surprisingly sharp images for such an old camera, which kind of threw me off. I do not regret buying and testing the 6x9 format for such a low price. For portraits it gets a bit tricky but for landscapes those cameras must be amazing. I did not correctly set the depth of field I think I was off my 2 stops on the dial (user error). I will defiantly use the camera again and can recommend a folder 10/10.

Here are some negative points, I don't know what Agfa was thinking when building the camera.

If you advance the film, you turn the film advance wheel and the camera cocks the shutter button, then you cock the shutter on the lens or the other way around. The big flaw about the camera is that the shutter button has to be cocked, two times on the roll, the shutter on the lens didn't release. It is most likely a problem of a sticky shutter in the lens or the gears need some love, but if you release the shutter button once, without triggering the shutter on the lens you cannot press it a second time. You can only manually use your finger to press the shutter on the lens or waste a frame. I remember shipping a friend a Agfa isolette and you did not have to cock the shutter button on the 6x6 model you could press it without cocking it (it released up on pressing the shutter button as often as you want) . This is by design a bad decision, because it causes additional errors specially if you wind to the next frame and walk around with your camera and accidentally press the shutter button (even when your shutter on the lens is not cocked) you pretty much messed up a frame or use the lever on the lens to trigger it. I hope this makes sense how I explained it. Did I make an error when handling the camera? Can I mod the camera like on the 6x6 so the shutter button always releases?

Ilford Hp5 / HC110 / dilution H 1+63 / 11 minutes / 20c / Rapidfixer 3 minutes / 1 min photoflow / epson v550 / silverfast > PSD export /

Spoiler: Here is an image sample it is overexposed but better than nothing. (The image is heavily resized and compressed due to upload size limit on photrio)

Spoiler: Screenshots closeup

 

[Besk]

I personally appreciate the feature on the Agfa. It keeps me from double exposing.

 

[unwantedfocus]

Short update I ordered some Vessel screwdrivers took the focus ring off, and the focus ring was indeed stuck. I did not bother using IPA I used my hair dryer and it came off, it did feel very sticky when screwing it off. Without the Hair dryer it would've been stuck no chance to get it off. I will clean it now it will probably take a while til I have everything off.

Spoiler: Some images

 

[baachitraka]

If it is a coated lens, cleaning it may require an extra care.

Easy to damage the lens.

 

[unwantedfocus]

If it is a coated lens, cleaning it may require an extra care.

Easy to damage the lens.

I used 70% IPA to clean the threads, should not be a problem since it doesn't touch the lens or coating?

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

Lenses made after the 40's are hard coated and don't damage that easily, scrubbing with a dirty cloth aside. Early coated lenses were 'soft coated' - think of the blue iridescence a dishwasher sometimes imparts to drinking glasses - and the coating would wipe off very easily; these coatings were restricted to use on internal lens surfaces. When the front lens cell is unscrewed then the internal surfaces are exposed, but these should be hard coated.

Often a light application of a strong solvent is better than a vigorous application of a weak solvent; it isn't the solvent/cleaner that does the damage but the scrubbing.

70% IPA isn't likely to dissolve the green goo. You might want to switch to acetone. From the looks of the Q-Tips it seems the goo is getting removed just by mechanical action - this will make it hard to get the goo out of the roots of the helical threads.

 

[JPD]

70% IPA isn't likely to dissolve the green goo. You might want to switch to acetone. From the looks of the Q-Tips it seems the goo is getting removed just by mechanical action - this will make it hard to get the goo out of the roots of the helical threads.

Lighter fluid/naptha is better for removing hardened grease and is less likely to damage the paint than acetone.

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

Lighter fluid/naptha is better for removing hardened grease and is less likely to damage the paint than acetone.

Quite right - not sure what made me write acetone. Naptha should remove the goo.

 

[unwantedfocus]

Lighter fluid/naptha is better for removing hardened grease and is less likely to damage the paint than acetone.

Quite right - not sure what made me write acetone. Naptha should remove the goo.

Thanks, I used lighter fluid, the threads seem to have small splitters of metal in them. Sorry for the bad quality.

 

[JPD]

Thanks, I used lighter fluid, the threads seem to have small splitters of metal in them. Sorry for the bad quality.

Do what Chris Sherlock does here at 10:30 and put a drop of lighter fluid on the threads to act as a mild lubricant and turn the focusing element back and forth in the mount to smoothen out the threads: