Goodbye Rollei, Hello Mamiya

[chip j]

According to the Mamiya camera book by (I believe, Bob Schwalberg) the pros were sorry to see the black lenses come out, because they ere softer, being designed for weddings & portraiture.

 

[OptiKen]

I love my C330 and think the lenses are VERY sharp. Possibly not as much contrast as some other lenses but I am very happy with every shot I've taken with it.
I had a Rolleicord and sold it quickly. For some reason I did not like it at all. I have other smallish TLR's that I enjoy using much more.
A Rolleicord is NOT a Rolleiflex. I think some people may be a little confused between the two.
Built by the same company but there is no comparison IMHO.
The versatility of the C330 cannot be overstated. Super close-ups. Wide angle, telephoto, 'normal' (80mm) view.
Yes they are heavy.
But they have no peers, IMHO

 

[Alan Gales]

According to the Mamiya camera book by (I believe, Bob Schwalberg) the pros were sorry to see the black lenses come out, because they ere softer, being designed for weddings & portraiture.

Ok, this is information that I read on the internet when I was doing research on the Mamiya TLR lenses. Of course we all know how accurate the internet is.

The original 105mm was a Tessar design. Wedding photographers complained that it was too sharp so Mamiya redesigned it as the 105mm DS which is a Heliar copy. Wedding photographers loved the new design.

Most people say that the blue dot black lenses are the sharpest. The 180mm Super being the sharpest of all the Mamiya TLR lenses.

 

[MattKing]

According to the Mamiya camera book by (I believe, Bob Schwalberg) the pros were sorry to see the black lenses come out, because they ere softer, being designed for weddings & portraiture.

If you design a lens for portraiture, you don't make it soft (unless it is designed to be soft focus). You design it to emphasize resolution rather than contrast.
And when I was using a Mamiya C330 professionally, it was just as well suited to product photography as it was to portraiture. That is why there were lots of pros using them.
If you think a lens that performs well for weddings is going to be "soft", you certainly haven't had many wedding clients - they can see a blurred Aunt Hilda or an indistinct wedding bouquet from across the room.

 

[Alan Gales]

About the weight of the Mamiya's:

My Mamiya C220f with 105mm DS weighs 3 lbs 10 oz on my postage scale which is roughly what my Hasselblad 500/cm weighed with it's 80mm Planar lens. My Minolta Autocord is lighter at 2 lbs 3 oz.

Sure the other TLR's weigh less but they don't have interchangeable lenses. Mamiya TLR's do compare favorably in weight to other 6x6 cameras which take interchangeable lenses though.

I bought the Autocord mainly as a walk about camera but when I need other focal lengths I will go to my C220f. As cheap as the Mamiya and some lighter TLR's are, why not own both?

 

[removed account4]

If Fleenor did the work relating to the now current issues, I would be contacting him first.

+1

from what i understand he does fantastic work and he stands by his work ...

 

[marcmarc]

+1

from what i understand he does fantastic work and he stands by his work ...

This is true which is why I took the Rolleicord to him. That said however, I have no idea if he actually worked on it or not. When I went to pick up the camera after the work had been completed I saw a young guy in there working on a Rollei. I figured he was maybe an apprentice, I didn't ask. Harry is an older gentleman so he may be thinking of retirement soon and may have plans to leave the business to family members or others who have the know-how on Rollei repairs. Whatever the case, I'm sure my warranty is expired but I may give him a call nonetheless. He'll probably tell me to bring the camera by for an estimate which although he's located within driving distance he's not exactly real close either and with traffic it's quite a time consuming trip. I'll have to mull it over.

 

[marcmarc]

Ok, this is information that I read on the internet when I was doing research on the Mamiya TLR lenses. Of course we all know how accurate the internet is.

The original 105mm was a Tessar design. Wedding photographers complained that it was too sharp so Mamiya redesigned it as the 105mm DS which is a Heliar copy. Wedding photographers loved the new design.

Most people say that the blue dot black lenses are the sharpest. The 180mm Super being the sharpest of all the Mamiya TLR lenses.

Yes, I've read too that the blue dot lenses are the ones with the most modern coatings. Shouldn't be too hard to find them...I hope!

 

[MattKing]

If you haven't already seen it, Graham Patterson's excellent Mamiya TLR System Summary is a must with respect to these cameras. And he is a member here on APUG too!
Here is my link - http://www.gapatterson.org/
The site's architecture has a bit of "character" that makes it difficult to link directly to it. But persevere, it is more than worth it.

 

[marcmarc]

If you haven't already seen it, Graham Patterson's excellent Mamiya TLR System Summary is a must with respect to these cameras. And he is a member here on APUG too!
Here is my link - http://www.gapatterson.org/
The site's architecture has a bit of "character" that makes it difficult to link directly to it. But persevere, it is more than worth it.

No, this is one page I haven't seen. It's just what I need! page bookmarked. thanks Matt!

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I mean, they're sharp as in well resolving, they are just not terribly high in contrast/acutance so they don't scream sharpness. Similar to the early Leica (resolution) vs Zeiss (higher contrast) comparisons.

Wouldn't you agree?

I agree that there is more to sharpness than resolution; yes. contrast play a big role when it comes to apparent sharpness and image clarity.

 

[removed account4]

This is true which is why I took the Rolleicord to him. That said however, I have no idea if he actually worked on it or not. When I went to pick up the camera after the work had been completed I saw a young guy in there working on a Rollei. I figured he was maybe an apprentice, I didn't ask. Harry is an older gentleman so he may be thinking of retirement soon and may have plans to leave the business to family members or others who have the know-how on Rollei repairs. Whatever the case, I'm sure my warranty is expired but I may give him a call nonetheless. He'll probably tell me to bring the camera by for an estimate which although he's located within driving distance he's not exactly real close either and with traffic it's quite a time consuming trip. I'll have to mull it over.

i'd make a phone call before you drive down. tell him you brought the camera in to be overhauled to begin with
and you hadn't used it since you got it back, it doesn't seem to work right. even thought his work is warrenteed for 60 days
or whatever it is, i would imagine the stuff you mention shouldn't be happeing even a few years after an overhaul.

good luck !

 

[Fujicaman1957]

It's "Waist" not waste.

Mr. Fujicaman-Grupenfurer-Grammar Gestopo

 

[E. von Hoegh]

It's "Waist" not waste.

Mr. Fujicaman-Grupenfurer-Grammar Gestopo

"Gruppenfuhrer", "Gestapo". There should be an umlaut over the 'u' in fuhrer, but this verfluchte keyboard seem to lack one...

 

[chassis]

On a Mac if you hold the key down a number of options,including umlaut, grave, etc., will appear.

 

[Lachlan Young]

Did Paul Strand use chrome lenses or black ones?

Chrome, going by this image: http://i66.tinypic.com/2nlzpk.jpg

Porroflex finder, probably just the 80mm lens. Nothing fancy or magical.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

"Gruppenfuhrer", "Gestapo". There should be an umlaut over the 'u' in fuhrer, but this verfluchte keyboard seem to lack one...

One might simply go find the character on a Web page somewhere, copy and paste it. Like this: ümlaut.

 

[Marco Gilardetti]

Thanks Matt. I'll keep the plain C330 in mind. My thoughts on the F and the S are simply they are going to be newer cameras and therefore may (or may not depending on their usage) have less problems then the older models.

Although already repeated ad nauseam, I can't refrain adding myself to the list of people who praise sharpness and contrast of Mamiya C lenses range. The 80mm is an all-brands absolute MUST HAVE, and the 180mm "super" is - simply put - one of the best lenses EVER, perfect for landscape, architecture and portraiture as well. The only thing you will regret about these two lenses is not having used them enough.

I'm not just as positive with 65mm and 55mm, which IMHO are just "good" lenses, but I would probably write the same of any other retro-focus wide angle lens. They have a very compact, light and portable design, though. Few mid-format lenses as wide as the 55mm are as compact and light as the Mamiya C.

Concerning the camera body, I consider the "Professional" and "Professional F" basically equivalent. You will possibily never take advantage of the very subtle difference in the gizmos with which the two are equipped. Concerning age and problems, I would simply suggest buying whatever camera looks less used and less beaten up. That is: if you find a "Professional" that looks shiny new and a "Professional F" that looks well used, go for the "Professional" without thinking twice, even if it's older.

Personally I would instead perhaps let the "Professional S" pass by. These are the latest restyling from Mamiya, and some metal parts were replaced with plastic parts (which doesn't necessarily mean that these parts are not OK, but stilll...). Also, these later cameras are scarcer, and should you need a specific spare part in the future, you would possibly have a harder time than with the "Professional" and "Professional F", which were produced by the millions. But again, should you find a "Professional S" in mint conditions, go for it without thinking twice. It will probably last your whole lifetime, and a century more.

And please keep us updated. I own a "Professional", by the way.

 

[mrosenlof]

I've been a Mamiya TLR owner since I bought a 330f and 135mm brand new in March of 1982. That one camera and lens has grown to four bodies and at least one copy of every black lens except the 250. So a few random comments:

I've been happy with the lens sharpness. Once upon a time I was very fussy about sharpness. These days I want sharp, but it's not the most important thing in a photograph to me.

Don't get too excited about the blue dot lenses. My 1982 135 has the blue dot. It's 35 years old now. Lots more variables matter more than the blue dot these days. The very newest of the TLR lenses are almost 25 years old now. I consider making multi-colored dots with model paint every now and then.

I really like the 220f. I haven't handled a non-F 220, but I like the feel of the 220f. The film wind has a great feel that the 330 does not.

I have not measured size or weight, but eyeball and hefting them, a 330f with 80 and my hasselblad with its 80 are pretty similar in both size and weight. Yup, both are bigger and heavier than the Rolleiflex and its clones. Most things in life involve a tradeoff of some kind.

I have had a couple of shutters overhauled, both took a few seconds to open after the release was pressed, and then seemed to close correctly. I think one case was a spider egg sac in the shutter, the other was gunked up libricant. I've never needed to repair a body. Any decent camera repair person should be able to service those leaf shutters, even the old chrome ones unless a part is actually broken.

 

[Huss]

Are you sure?

View attachment 182752 View attachment 182754

Lovely photos

 

[aferrarini]

I had a Rolleicord for some years now, while it's true it is not a Rolleiflex (I would love to have one of those too at some point), it is also true it's an extremely capable camera and its lightweight and easy to drag around. You may also consider to find another cord or a Rolleiflex.

 

[markjwyatt]

I love my C330f and C220f (plus I have a C2). I basically have the two bodies and 3 lenses (55, 80, 180). They are not the most portable cameras, but for medium format they are very reasonable. I used them semi-professionally in the past, but also used them for enjoyment. I have not used them in quite a while, but I think I may bring them out again, and start playing with film again.

 

[film_man]

I had a C330f, I now have a Rollei 2.8FX. The Mamiya is a solid camera, I had a fungus infested 80 blue dot and a 105DS. They were very sharp, the 105 was great. What makes the Mamiya great is that you can focus real close with it. What makes the Mamiya less than great is that it can focus real close so it is big and heavy, at least compared to the Rollei. I can't remember as it has been a year since I got rid of the Mamiya but I'm pretty sure loading was a bit easier and the shutter release was smoother than my FX. As things are I'm still getting used to the Rollei but it has relit my interest in TLRs so may end up with a C330f again, just for the wide/tele/close-up capability.

One word of warning for ebay. I now only buy from people that ship *without* using ebay's GSP shipping, ie the seller send it direct. If you don't know what GSP is basically you send the item to a local ebay shipping centre, then they sort out customs and shipping. The theory is that the seller only worries about sending it to a local destination and the seller gets the "assurance" that it is all safe and sound. The problem is that when I sold said Mamiya to some poor guy in Korea, the local shipping centre damaged the camera (they actually open and inspect to work out customs). Looked like they dropped it and the shutter button broke. Obviously they just put it in the box and sent it on leaving me and the buyer to work it out throughg ebay's and paypal's byzantine bureaucracy.

 

[tessar]

One more thing to watch for in Mamiya Cs. After years of use the film transport on my C330 suddenly failed. It did not stop at the frame stops but just kept winding the film to the end. I looked around the net and found out this is commonly caused by caked-on lubricant in the works. Unfortunately there are no more mechanical camera techs left in this city, so a C330s body listed on eBay looked like a promising alternative. I bought it and it turned out to be OK.
I got it for probably less than a tech would have charged, but on the other hand it as always fun going to a tech and and trading stories about equipment mysteries.
'Twas ever thus.

 

[mshchem]

I've had 2 C330 cameras over the years. Fabulous camera. I had a paramender for close work. I sold off the last one only because I have too much stuff. I also had a little Yashica 120 TLR that I paid 50 bucks for that was great. I would love a nice Rollei but don't have the money, I would want a nice one, lovely camera.