Good Russian Cameras?

brainmonster · Jun 11, 2020

I'm looking for a good manual camera and I really like the aesthetic and also price of the old soviet cameras. Which of these cameras produces good results/sharp images? I was looking at some "zorki" cameras which are pretty compact and seem quite nice, I think they are leica copies, of course I'm not expected leica results but I wonder if they produce good images.

Also it'd be nice to have one with a working built-in meter, but I think most of these cameras use selenium meters, which I think would be burnt out by now? Is it possible to find a russian camera with a working meter or battery-powered meter?

I'm moving from a Minolta 70 autofocus/autoexposure and looking to get more involved in the exposure process, but would like a camera with a working meter and/or can produce excellent results.

Donald Qualls · Jun 11, 2020

I've been pretty happy with my Kiev 4M, and my meter works (above about EV 9) -- though I've heard the older models (Kiev 2, no meter, and Kiev 3 with selenium meter) are slightly better made/more reliable. The lenses are Zeiss glass made in a factory moved to Ukraine after the war, so very capable. This is pre-War Contax mount. Fed and Zorki use Leica thread mount.

BAC1967 · Jun 11, 2020

I have a Kiev 4 with a working Selenium meter. It’s a great camera and the Jupiter 8M is a decent lens. The only thing I don’t like is the lens mount and focusing, I prefer the simpler LTM mounts. The meter doesn’t control exposure, it’s just therefor you to take a reading.

Kiev 4 by Bryan Chernick, on Flickr

I also like the Zorki I and the Zorki 4K, both decent cameras. With the collapsible lenses they can be quite compact, especially the Zorki I. The 4K has a better rangefinder and viewfinder. These will probably lead you to buying a real Leica, or more.

Zorki I by Bryan Chernick, on Flickr

Zorki 4K by Bryan Chernick, on Flickr

brainmonster · Jun 11, 2020

Thanks for the great pictures! It sounds like a Kiev 4 is what I'm looking for if I want a meter. I'll look at purchasing one that's been cla'd, as I've heard that's a good idea for older cameras.

BAC1967 said:
I have a Kiev 4 with a working Selenium meter. It’s a great camera and the Jupiter 8M is a decent lens. The only thing I don’t like is the lens mount and focusing, I prefer the simpler LTM mounts. The meter doesn’t control exposure, it’s just therefor you to take a reading.

Kiev 4 by Bryan Chernick, on Flickr

4season · Jun 11, 2020

In the USA, Zenit 122K, 412 and KM+ shouldn't be too hard to find, as Lomography sold them until 2018 or so. 122 and 412 are fairly traditional Zenit designs under their plastic exteriors while KM was totally new. The newer the Zenit, the more plastic, but this does make for lighter weight, and they continued to improve finder and LED meter brightness over time.

For older cameras, consider buying from reputable sellers who can check and repair cameras as needed. Most will be located in former Soviet republics.

BTW, did you know that Zenit cameras were actually manufactured not just near Moscow by KMZ, but also in Belarus by Belomo, and exterior styling and model designations diverged in post USSR years.

Michael Teresko · Jun 11, 2020

My experience with FSU cameras resulted in me swearing off them, and getting a Barnack Leica. I've bought 2 Zorkis, 2 Iskras, and a Kiev, either from EB or from OK Vintage, and they have all developed issues. The best of the bunch was an Iskra I bought from Oleg, which unfortunately was stolen. Oleg was great to deal with, but I did need to return the Iskra when the shutter jammed shortly after I received it. He repaired it quickly, but the shipping costs to return it were ridiculous. I would be very cautious buying an FSU camera on EB. If I were to consider another, I would try Fedka. His prices are higher than most other sources, but he has a good reputation and is located in the US. You might try Igor Camera also. I've had great dealings with him, for both fair pricing and accurate descriptions. That being said, I would suggest a Barnack Leica, as they are not that much more expensive, way better built, hold their value, are easier to get serviced, and are worth the cost of servicing. And there are no fiddly rules about when to change shutter speed. If you want to, you can always get a less expensive FSU lens.

Dali · Jun 11, 2020

I would stay away from Soviet cameras unless you know how to repair them.

If it is to take pictures, any camera can do the job. Knowing that film cameras are pretty old now, I would stick to those having the best reliability reputation. Soviet cameras at not well rated in this matter...

Donald Qualls · Jun 11, 2020

brainmonster said:
Thanks for the great pictures! It sounds like a Kiev 4 is what I'm looking for if I want a meter. I'll look at purchasing one that's been cla'd, as I've heard that's a good idea for older cameras.

The Kiev 3 also has a meter -- and predates the changes to the design intended to make the camera easier to produce. A Kiev 2 is precisely a Contax II, a Kiev 3 a Contax III, only made in Ukraine (Soviet Union). There is some reason to believe that the newer the Kiev, in this line, the lower the build quality. My Kiev 4, for instance, works fine except it overlaps frames, and apparently no one who's competent to repair a Contax design will touch a Soviet camera. The overlap is small (a millimeter or two, when the spacing isn't fine), so I'm just going to live with it until it annoys me enough to open up the camera -- but before I get that far, I plan to get a 2 or 3 as a backup (probably a 2, as I don't actually use the meter, and the one on a 3 is pretty big).

mark · Jun 11, 2020

Just remember that the vodka flowed freely in the QC room. Each camera will act different. My experience is with the MF K88. I bought two and got lucky. A friend bought 2 and both were crap. Out of my lens purchases all but one were good.

I sold both good K88s To find a Hartblei modified one and have been very happy with it. In truth I should have bought the CM model but money was really tight then.

AgX · Jun 11, 2020

mark said:
Just remember that the vodka flowed freely in the QC room.

Any proof ??

Michael Teresko · Jun 11, 2020

AgX said:
Any proof ??

I'd assume 80 but 100 is possible.

brainmonster · Jun 11, 2020

I find it really interesting. Either you love Soviet cameras or you hate them. But surely they are cheap enough where you could just throw them away if they don't work and get a new one? Assuming they work to begin with, which I hope mine will if it's been CLA'd and tested.

foc · Jun 11, 2020

If you can get your hands on any Soviet camera that was imported into the UK by TOE, (Technical & Optical Equipment) then you will have a very reliable camera.

TOE had its own quality control department and every camera that was imported was checked and repaired if necessary. I spoke to Roger Lean, when he serviced a Zorkie 4K & Fed 4b for me a few years ago. Roger was a senior repair technician in TOE back in the day and he confirmed that all Soviet cameras that came through TOE were dismantled and reassembled if necessary.

I know you are on the other side of the world but it might help to bear it in mind.

John Will · Jun 11, 2020

[QUOTE=" That being said, I would suggest a Barnack Leica, as they are not that much more expensive, way better built, hold their value, are easier to get serviced, and are worth the cost of servicing. And there are no fiddly rules about when to change shutter speed.[/QUOTE]

Actually the shutter speed of a Barnack Leica should only be changed after winding on the film.

awty · Jun 11, 2020

The Canon LTM's are similarly priced these days and are far better made and easy to work on......but don't tell anyone, don't want the price to go up only have 5.
Id get a Jupiter 8, it is a very nice lens.

brainmonster · Jun 11, 2020

awty said:
The Canon LTM's are similarly priced these days and are far better made and easy to work on......but don't tell anyone, don't want the price to go up only have 5.
Id get a Jupiter 8, it is a very nice lens.

Fair enough, I guess there's downfalls ordering things from half way across the world unless you absolutely have to, but I already ordered one, so I guess I'll see, might have to learn things the hard way. The overlapping frames thing seems to be a common motif, such that Donald mentioned and at least I know that if it breaks I'll have to just toss it since they can't be serviced here.

Ko.Fe. · Jun 11, 2020

Where are Ukrainian, Russian and Belorussian cameras from USSR time. By now any of them have too old meters. They were made by not very happy people with not very good equipment.
If you need results, skip all FSU gear. You could get serviced made in Japan LTM camera and collimate FSU LTM lens for it. And use hand held meter or phone app. You’ll get more accurate measure.
I have Nikkormat with working meter. Much better camera than any FSU and nice looking.

Dali · Jun 11, 2020

brainmonster said:
I find it really interesting. Either you love Soviet cameras or you hate them. But surely they are cheap enough where you could just throw them away if they don't work and get a new one? Assuming they work to begin with, which I hope mine will if it's been CLA'd and tested.

It is not a question of love or hate, it is a question of reliability. Again, USSR cameras are not part of the top tier.

Throwing away a camera when it does not work anymore because it is cheap is a strange philosophy I never agreed with. A camera is a camera regardless the price because it has its own value.

btaylor · Jun 12, 2020

I went through an FSU 35mm rangefinder phase. Kiev 4 (reminded me of the Contax I had as a teenager) and FED 2 were my favorites. Nearly all the lenses in ltm or Contax mount were excellent especially after a CLA. But I have to admit the rough fit and finish got old and I really preferred the German or Japanese rangefinders in the hand. I got really tired of the squinty viewfinders too. It was fun though and I got some nice shots. I would recommend Fedka too to minimize disappointment.

StepheKoontz · Jun 12, 2020

I've found the earlier FSU cameras seemed much better made. One thing nice about FSU gear is for almost all of it, the first two digits of the serial number is the date it was made. I have a zorki from the mid 1950's and it works great. I wouldn't bother with an old FSU camera with a built in mater, it's likely dead or inaccurate by now + IMHO they are ugly.

That said, if you want a reliable rangefinder camera, get a LTM canon and a matching lens. The Tower/Nicca with a nikkor is another great option.

Wallendo · Jun 12, 2020

I tried for years to get a cheap Russian rangefinder. For all the money I spent, it turned out to be cheaper to buy a Barnack Leica and CLA.

i currently have a FED 3 with registration issues, a 5b with a light leak I can’t find. And s 5c with a sticky shutter. Of the 5 Soviet lenses I own, only one couples properly with my Leica IIIc.

brainmonster · Jun 12, 2020

Wallendo said:
I tried for years to get a cheap Russian rangefinder. For all the money I spent, it turned out to be cheaper to buy a Barnack Leica and CLA.

i currently have a FED 3 with registration issues, a 5b with a light leak I can’t find. And s 5c with a sticky shutter. Of the 5 Soviet lenses I own, only one couples properly with my Leica IIIc.

I'd love to pick up a barnack leica but they run about $800 on ebay these days. I feel like getting a CLA'd Kiev 4 might be the way to go. Seller assures that the meter works as well. Or a Zenit TTL serviced (although I like the older soviet designs aesthetic better).

Either can be had for under $100, and a Zenit for basically peanuts.

awty · Jun 12, 2020

The Kievs are really complicated cameras, wonder what a ukrainian CLA involves.
Hope yours functions well, if not off load and put your money towards something else.
I have a excellent in appearance Kiev 3a and Zorki 1, both have too many issues to be bothered using, shame, lucky they were cheap

M-88 · Jun 12, 2020

Dali said:
I would stay away from Soviet cameras unless you know how to repair them.

^^^ This. Couldn't have put it better myself. I am from FSU country and I have to deal with Soviet cameras on a daily basis. I can't think of a single camera which I can wholeheartedly recommend to someone, unless I want to make an enemy.

ALL of Kiev cameras are overcomplicated, be it a rangefinder (Kiev/Kiev-2/Kiev-4), a proprietary single lens reflex (Kiev-10/Kiev-15) or a Nikon mount SLR (Kiev 17, 18, 19). Even a smallest repair can go awry unless you know what you are doing and I'm afraid they are known for their poor reliability. Rangefinders are somewhat similar (BUT NOT ENTIRELY!!!) to German Contax rangefinders, but they also suffer from reliability issues. This is a 35 mm section of this forum, but all the reliability issues are common for medium format Kievs as well.

Early Zorki and FED cameras are truthful copies of Leica, but their viewfinders are dim, rangefinders will be out of alignment and sometimes it's not so easy to align them back again. If you are going for a Soviet rangefinder, one and only decent model is Zorki-4K. It's relatively new, made in 1973 and more reliable than its predecessors. Also, film advance is with lever, not with knob. My opinion: better have a reliable device without light meter, or an unreliable device with a light meter. It's noteworthy, that rangefinder levers are different on Leica and Soviet lenses, so you might have focus precision issues if you mount a Leica lens, without adjusting the cam.

Zenit are moderately reliable. They were produced in enormous quantities by several factories. Most reliable being "KMZ" and least reliable - "Belomo". Cameras and lenses usually sport logos of factories so it's a good idea to look which is which before making a purchase. What else is there? A poor selection of shutter speeds in every single model, large size (especially for post-1970s camera) and weight. M42 on most models, but there are a few with Pentax K-mount as well. It is a common idea that TTL model (named after TTL metering, obviously) is the best, but it uses mercury cell and viewfinder is VERY dim thanks to metering circuit. Therefore many people prefer Zenit-11 with selenium meter, or Zenit-B (that's cyrilic "V" not latin "B") with no meter at all.

These are most common models. All of the above mentioned can and do produce nice images, especially when they employ Soviet copies of German glass, so image quality is the least concern when dealing with Sovs.

brainmonster · Jun 12, 2020

M-88 said:
^^^ This. Couldn't have put it better myself. I am from FSU country and I have to deal with Soviet cameras on a daily basis. I can't think of a single camera which I can wholeheartedly recommend to someone, unless I want to make an enemy.

ALL of Kiev cameras are overcomplicated, be it a rangefinder (Kiev/Kiev-2/Kiev-4), a proprietary single lens reflex (Kiev-10/Kiev-15) or a Nikon mount SLR (Kiev 17, 18, 19). Even a smallest repair can go awry unless you know what you are doing and I'm afraid they are known for their poor reliability. Rangefinders are somewhat similar (BUT NOT ENTIRELY!!!) to German Contax rangefinders, but they also suffer from reliability issues. This is a 35 mm section of this forum, but all the reliability issues are common for medium format Kievs as well.

Early Zorki and FED cameras are truthful copies of Leica, but their viewfinders are dim, rangefinders will be out of alignment and sometimes it's not so easy to align them back again. If you are going for a Soviet rangefinder, one and only decent model is Zorki-4K. It's relatively new, made in 1973 and more reliable than its predecessors. Also, film advance is with lever, not with knob. My opinion: better have a reliable device without light meter, or an unreliable device with a light meter. It's noteworthy, that rangefinder levers are different on Leica and Soviet lenses, so you might have focus precision issues if you mount a Leica lens, without adjusting the cam.

Zenit are moderately reliable. They were produced in enormous quantities by several factories. Most reliable being "KMZ" and least reliable - "Belomo". Cameras and lenses usually sport logos of factories so it's a good idea to look which is which before making a purchase. What else is there? A poor selection of shutter speeds in every single model, large size (especially for post-1970s camera) and weight. M42 on most models, but there are a few with Pentax K-mount as well. It is a common idea that TTL model (named after TTL metering, obviously) is the best, but it uses mercury cell and viewfinder is VERY dim thanks to metering circuit. Therefore many people prefer Zenit-11 with selenium meter, or Zenit-B (that's cyrilic "V" not latin "B") with no meter at all.

These are most common models. All of the above mentioned can and do produce nice images, especially when they employ Soviet copies of German glass, so image quality is the least concern when dealing with Sovs.

So I can use soviet lenses (which I hear are well) but which bodies are good to use? I'm interested in trying out Helios and Jupiter lenses, I don't know about which mount, but I prefer a compact design. Can you recommend a good body which I can attach using maybe contax, leica, or m42 mount which are compact?

Good Russian Cameras?

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