Good first MF camera?

[Stevopedia]

Hello everyone,

At some point in the future I'd like to move up to medium format, and I was wondering what cameras you would suggest for a brand-new MF shooter. I've been considering the Rolleicord V or Pentax 645. Would either be a good choice? If not, what would you suggest?

-Stephen

 

[Kevin Caulfield]

You'll get as many answers as there are MF users on APUG. My first and only MF camera is a Hasselblad 500C/M. I could just afford it at the time, but I have absolutely no regrets. Many swear by the Pentax 645 and the Rolleicord, so I'm sure you can't really go too far wrong with them.

 

[Kevin Caulfield]

By the way, my 'blad is 31 years old this year. I got it a much needed service last year. When I bought it, about five years ago, it had probably never had a service.

 

[papagene]

Depending on your budget and shooting style the field is pretty wide open for choices. Both cameras you mention are quite good. As Kevin said, you will probably get as many suggestions as there are suggesters.
My first MF camera was a Yashica Mat 124g. It was a fun camera and I took many fine photos with it. I always lusted for a Bronica SQA but could never afford one at the time. Now I have a couple of FUji rangefinders, GW670 II & GSW690 III, and I really love using them... very sharp lenses.
My advise: listen to all the advice you get here... think about your shooting style... what style camera you like to use, etc. If you can get your hands on different styles of cameras to try them out, then do so.
Good luck and have fun searching.

gene

 

[bdial]

a 645 and a Rolleicord are vastly different though they are both MF cameras. Either could be a good choice, but a lot depends on how you'd like to use the camera and what sort of subjects you like working with.

For example, on the Rollei you are constrained to the point of view of it's 80mm lens. If you like tight portraits, 80mm is a bit short, on the other hand for scenics, groups and miriad other situations it's fine. Interchangable lenses are a nice feature though.

On the 645 side, you get a camera that handles much like a 35mm, but the negative isn't much bigger either. You get more choices for optics if the standard lens doesn't fit your vision.

Like Kevin, I'm partial to Hasselblad but I've used several other MF cameras over the years, and have two antique folders in addition to the Hasselblad. Since getting it, I've barely touched my 35.

What kinds of things do you like to shoot, and what are you looking to accomplish by going to MF?

 

[tony lockerbie]

Possibly need to think first as to the format you would prefer, 6x6 or 6x7(9) or 6x4.5. If you like the square format it's hard to go past a Hasselblad 500C or C/M, especially at the prices they go for now. The only concern with 'Blad stuff is the price of extra lenses, can be a bit much. I bought the chrome, non- T* lenses for mine, saves you heaps.
There is also the Mamiya TLR's with interchangeable lenses, these are quite bulky for a TLR but they are sturdy and the lenses are good. The Rolleiflexes are of course the leaders in this field, but come at a premium so a Rolleicord might be the go if your budget is tight.
The lenses on the 'cords are great but the viewfinder image is nowhere as bright as the later Rolleiflexes, that's the trade off.
If you are after a bigger neg you could go for the big Fuji rangefinders as papagene has mentioned. They are light, very reliable and the lenses are superb.
Great time to branch out into MF as people are abandoning them in droves to go digital, good luck with your search.
Tony

 

[thuggins]

Get a folder. There is something quite sensual about pushing the button and having the lens pop out. The creative process is strongly enhanced by having the light meter in one hand to test the scene, and the camera in the other.

 

[keithwms]

One day I will write this up as a blog because I seem to feel obligated to respond to this kind of question a bit too often!

Anyway, glad to hear you are considering MF. I have tried just about everything in MF- toured everything from pentaxes to hassies to the big Fujis. My current favourite gear consists of a pair of mamiya sixes and an rb67 pro sd. The latter is my quick macro weapon of choice. I am about to pick up a spare pro SD body for, what, $200? Laughable. I would encourage you to consider the same; it's all about the glass you can put on the thing and the reliability.

In terms of bang per buck, I think the rb lineup is peerless. I am not saying anything about mamiya vs. hassie in terms of lp/mm and bokeh and "feel" and all that, I am just saying that the hassie lineup doesn't compete in terms of bang per buck. Again, I am not talking about bang, I am talking about bang per buck Enough disclaimers to avoid a conflagration, I hope.

 

[aparat]

Since you're already considering TLRs, I am would like to recommend Minolta Autocord. I bought one cheaply on the auction site and had it professionally overhauled. It is an amazing camera. The shutter is so smooth and almost noiseless. Focusing is easy, viewfinder bright, and the lens is quite sharp. I am sure this camera will serve me well for quite a while.

aprat

 

[MattKing]

What you need to do is befriend someone who, like me, has more MF cameras than strictly makes sense.

Excluding my old Kodak 616 folder, I had one MF camera for just over 20 years - a Mamiya C330 TLR. Since 2003 or so, I've been buying and trying a number of others - 645 SLRs, 6x7 Rangefinders, another Mamiya TLR body...

The C330 is a good first MF camera. It, like other TLRs is sufficiently different from 35mm SLRs as to encourage a different approach, which is a good thing.

If, on the other hand, you love SLRs, Mamiya 645s in their various versions are good, and the lenses and most accessories are very reasonable.

I've been experimenting recently with Koni-Omega 6x7 rangefinders. They too are quite different, and they provide an affordable entry into 6x7, which just happens to be the largest negative carrier for my enlarger. I wouldn't necessarily suggest that they would be a good first MF camera (they are large, and somewhat quirky) but they help illustrate the wide variety of choices out there.

Your decision should be guided by what works best for you. If possible, try them out before you commit, so you can see how comfortable they are for you to use.

Personally, if I was starting again, I'd experiment with a relatively inexpensive TLR, to see whether I liked working that way. The Rolliecord is a good choice. A Mamiya C220 would also be a good choice, because of low cost, and the ability to use the Mamiya lenses on the more refined C330. If you like it, either buy more Mamiya lenses and bodies and accessories or, if interchangeable lenses aren't as important for you, consider a Rollieflex.

If you don't like the TLR, you can probably sell it for close to what you put into it.

Have fun.

Matt

 

[dfoo]

I started with a yashica mat 124g. Great camera! Mine, unfortunately, lost its life when my tripod fell over (or at least, its gone to me . I bought a hasselbad 500/C, and three lenses; no regrets! It is excellent in all respects.

 

[fatboy22]

Bronica S2A or C, or Norita 66, Both very well built cameras with excellent optics and very reasonably priced with no electronics to go bad. Get one that has just been serviced or have it serviced by a quality camera repair tech and it will perform for many years, built like tanks!


Jamie

 

[rpsawin]

Stephen,

My first mf system was a Bronica SQb. I still use it and there are lots of used components around. The lenses are excellent. I purposely bought the SQb because I wanted to use an external spot meter.

For more info check out http://www.tamron.com/bronica/sq_guide.asp

Best regards,

Bob

 

[srs5694]

I'm not at all sure I'd recommend it as an all-around good starting MF camera, but I thought I'd toss this in: I've got a Kiev 6C, which is a 6x6 SLR. The main advantage of this camera (and the similar Kiev 60 and Pentacon Six) is the inexpensive lenses, including a (relatively) affordable 30mm fisheye. The drawback to these cameras is that they tend to be trouble-prone. They're also pretty basic, with little in the way of advanced features. Still, if you want a big lens collection, they can be worth considering.

 

[Davesw]

My journey went (is going ) like this: first was a 124g a descent TLR. but soon Iwas longing for a longer lens and a wide angle once and a while. I was told the Pentax 6x7 was a great camera but if I was going to get a new camera I wanted film backs too. I went kiev 88 and I found out that every thing I had heard was true: great optics but crude mechanichly. It was all my budget could afford at the time,but the jamming and clunkeness took its toll and I could not imagine investing in the lenses knowing they would only work with my F1000 russian copy. So I went looking for a Hassleblad 500 I could afford and now after only a week of ownership I am with the system I will stick with
I was a bit lucky in that I got what was advertised as 500c and it turned out to be an early500c\m but marked as a 500C. the interchangable finder screen being the only difference.
this is why I went with the Blad.
1) lots of availability on the used market.
2) Great optics.
3) bullet proof system and people that know how to service them

 

[phenix]

A TLR. When composing and shooting, the feeling of a TLR is close to the feeling a 35mm range-finder gives you.

I would recommend you the YashicaMat 124 (±G), as it does have a f/2.8 bright viewing lens (very easy to focus through), and an excelent Tessar type f/3.5 shooting lens, both (of course) 80mm.
It also comes with a lightmeter.
It also takes both 120 and 220 films (very, very important).
It takes B30/bayonet-1 filters (cheap and easy to find).
All you need (and it's a must): a lens-shade (bayonet-1 too).

There are other options too, like Minolta Autocord, but none has such a bright viewing lens as the YashicaMat 124 does. And Minolta is on the high contrast side, while YashicaMat is on the high resolution side.

Mamiya has a pro. TLR, with 3 interchangeable lenses, which is very nice, but also very havy, and... expensive.

On the budget, you can buy effectively any TLR comming with a Tessar type shooting lens (I wouldn't recommend you triplets), and a bayonet-1/B30 filter mount. With some luck you could get your hands on one of these for $40-60.

But as I know (and I'm 95% sure), only the YashicaMat 124 (±G) does work with both 120 and 220 films! At least, in its price range. The "G" comes from gold: the contact of the light-meter is plated in gold. An 124 goes arround $100-120.

 

[Nick Zentena]

You need to figure out what you need. How you'll use the camera. What you're willing to live with. Making a list of features will help narrow things down quite a bit. You'll notice the list of cameras suggested is fairly long and it doesn't even include my favorite MF camera -)

I'd avoid the Kievs in todays market. Prices on EVERYTHING are down so far the Kievs aren't that cheap anymore. If you want to use the lenses the Pentax you intially mentioned will take an adapter for P6 lenses. So will Mamiyas 645. I say all this owning a well working Kiev 6C and Kiev 60.

I could suggest my Bronica ETRSI. But I've no idea what you want to do.

 

[ntenny]

(on the YashicaMat)

It also takes both 120 and 220 films (very, very important).

I'm curious---why do you feel this is such an important feature? I don't think I have anything that can take 220, and it's never bothered me...but maybe I just don't know what I'm missing.

-NT

 

[Ian Grant]

Stephen,really you have picked two good cameras o choose from. Others have made good suggestions.

However you need to decide whether to go down the TLR route with a Rolleiflex, they are great cameras but quite different to use after a 35mm camera, and your limited to just the fixed lens. Or you could get a Pentax645, this handles like a scaled up 35mm camera, is flexible and expandable, plenty of other lenses are available.

Ian

 

[kavandje]

My first MF was -- and still is -- a Yashicamat 124. I love it, and I don't see myself parting with it. I second the advice re. TLRs: the 'feel' really is something different, and in a way it forces you to re-frame. I think of it as a sort of gateway drug to larger formats.

Anyone wanna build me a 4x5 TLR?

 

[Victor Krag]

If your enlarger will take up to 6x7cm then make the most of it and go with an RB67, reasonable price, neg fits 8x10 paper almost perfectly. Above all, move yourself toward the direction where you optimally want to be.. If you want to shoot street, then a 645 is great way to go hand held. If you want to simply explore the benefits of a larger neg at a minimum cost, a Mamiya TLR (C220) with exchangeable lenses is tough to beat.

 

[keithwms]

Forgot to mention, I recently got a mamiya 645 AFD and like it very much; also the older mamiya 645s are a good deal. The manual focus (M645) lenses are a steal- look at KEH. This camera is super for rapid-fire work and it gives you much faster shutter speeds than the rb, if that is a concern. Plus (hope this comment doesn't cause great annoyance) there is a good digital back made for the thing that may someday become affordable to non pros.

The best-built interchangeable-back 645 is, in my opinion, the contax, but alas it is no longer. But the lenses of the mamiya system are at least as good and there are many more of them on the market... and the mamiya system is still selling. I've got nothing against the pentax 645s, it's just that I think one of the best features of MF is rapidly interchangeable backs. Being able to go from pola/fuji proofs to b&w to slide or whatever in a few seconds, or expose different rolls for different development, is a bigbenefit of MF.

 

[Steve Smith]

If your enlarger will take up to 6x7cm then make the most of it and go with an RB67.

That's exactly the reason why I bought my RB67. To suit my LPL6700 enlarger.


Steve.

 

[Síle]

I'll echo aprat with a second vote for the Minolta Autocord.. I love mine and the results it gives.

Síle

 

[Fotoguy20d]

I'm fairly new to medium format myself. I started with a Yashica-D (always wanted a TLR) but, although I liked the big square negatives, I quickly found the TLR format clunky. I'm now using a variety of 2x3 Graphics (Speed and Century) with roll film backs. I can get 6x6, 6x7 and 6x9 on 120 film (my LPL enlarger can take up to a 6x7 negative). I have 100mm and 65mm lenses, which cover most of the work I do, and a couple of longer lenses which usually stay on my large format cameras since most of my work is at the wide end of the spectrum. I've always wanted a Hasselblad but never wanted to pay the price. Thought about the Kievs and Pentacons but based on my experience with Russian Leica II copies, didn't think I'd be happy with the feel. The Graphics are fun to use, get a lot of attention, and don't break the bank (although they get a bit ridiculous sometimes on ebay).

Dan