Good developer for fluctuating temperatures?

mortimer · Sep 12, 2006

Hello all, this is my first question on this site, related to what will be my first home-processed rolls of b/w film in about 10 years.

Can anyone offer recommendations for film developers that can withstand temperatures that fluctuate by +/- 5 degrees C? With my current budget, new equipment isn't an option (which is why I'm switching from Provia to Pan-F), so I'm hoping there's something that will do a decent job with less than ideal conditions, and preferably something readily available (ie: Kodak or Ilford).

Thanks in advance for any help, sorry if this has been covered (I searched but couldn't find anything specific about this), and thanks to the gurus for all the other helpful info I've garnered from lurking over the past month or two.

c6h6o3 · Sep 12, 2006

It's not very readily available, but I've used Harvey's Panthermic (italics mine) 777 at temperatures ranging from 72 degrees F to 85 degrees F with perfect results. I adjust my time by 1 minute for every 2 degrees F of temperature delta. This function is absolutely linear up to 85 degrees F.

Stephanie Brim · Sep 12, 2006

Diafine works well, but it pushes most film a stop or more and isn't very readily available. You can mail order it from Adorama, though.

Lachlan Young · Sep 12, 2006

Diafine and Pan-f seems to work well together from what I have heard.

Hope this helps,

Lachlan

Stephanie Brim · Sep 12, 2006

Eh. I've had mixed results. It seems that people either like Pan-F with Diafine or they don't. Most people on RFF tend to lean toward not liking it, while I found that I got acceptable results. I don't know how they'd print, but they scan well.

Lachlan Young · Sep 12, 2006

Stephanie Brim said:
Eh. I've had mixed results. It seems that people either like Pan-F with Diafine or they don't. Most people on RFF tend to lean toward not liking it, while I found that I got acceptable results. I don't know how they'd print, but they scan well.

I seem to remember reading that shooting Pan-F at 50 in Diafine is much better than shooting it at the recommended rating of 80/100. Haven't tried this, I much prefer Plus-X or FP4+ in Diafine.

Hope this helps,

Lachlan

Bob F. · Sep 12, 2006

Do you mean short-term temperature changes (as in a 5 degree change during a 15 minute period) or occasionally changing temperatures which remain constant for some hours?

You can process B&W film at a range of temperatures between 14 - 26 degrees C at least - film manufacturer's datasheets have charts that allow for different temperatures.

For short-term temperature fluctuations, fill a bucket or large bowl with water and keep the developing tank in it while not actually agitating it.

Cheers, Bob.

jim appleyard · Sep 12, 2006

I'm not a Diafine user (I either don't push film at all or push it more than Diafine will handle), but I read up on it all the time. Lex from photo.net like Pan-F in Diafine at an EI of 80. If you're cutting costs, probably nothing is cheaper than Diafine. It simply goes and goes and goes...

Stephanie Brim · Sep 12, 2006

I liken Diafine to the Energizer Bunny. It just keeps going and going and going and going...

mortimer · Sep 12, 2006

Bob F. said:
Do you mean short-term temperature changes (as in a 5 degree change during a 15 minute period) or occasionally changing temperatures which remain constant for some hours?

You can process B&W film at a range of temperatures between 14 - 26 degrees C at least - film manufacturer's datasheets have charts that allow for different temperatures.

For short-term temperature fluctuations, fill a bucket or large bowl with water and keep the developing tank in it while not actually agitating it.

Cheers, Bob.

Hi, thanks for all the quick replies. By temp. change, I mean the water coming out of the tap fluctuates temp. by the second - so I suppose then that my question, now that I've read these and thought about it, should really be asking for developer that works well at room temp, since I can leave the water sitting for a while to get to around 75 degrees or so.

The wash will still fluctuate wildly, but I imagine that's not too big a deal?

Also, I seem to have read a lot of topics on this site about Diafine and Rodinal. Being the non-mail-order, no-internet-purchase type, are there any other not-too-picky developers that would be relatively easy to find in a city the size of Toronto?

Thanks again for the replies.

Gerald Koch · Sep 12, 2006

Large temperature changes such as you give plus/minus 5 C have an adverse effect on film no matter what developer you use. Get a plastic wash basin and put an inch or two of water in it. Place containers with your developer, stopbath, and fixer in the water. Adjust the water temperature to the desired processing temperature and allow the solutions to equilibrate. You can use ice or hot water to adjust the water temperature during processing. Developer temperature should be kept within 1/4 degree C for consistency. Stopbath and fixers can vary by 2 to 3 degrees C. While this may sound rather fussy it actually saves time when you come to print your negatives. As I said, consistency will make for negatives that have the same printing characteristics.

If your wash water temperature is unpredictable then you should use a hardening fixer.

Bob F. · Sep 12, 2006

All general developers will work well at room temperatures. To avoid the problem of wash water temperature, instead of using running water, use the Ilford wash method: leave a small bucket etc of water to reach the same temperature as the developer etc.

After fixing [non-hardening fixer], fill the spiral tank with water at the
same temperature, +/ 5ºC (9ºF), as the
processing solutions and invert it five times. Drain
the water away and refill. Invert the tank ten times.
Once more drain the water away and refill.
Finally, invert the tank twenty times and drain the
water away.

Ilford have a number of useful PDF documents on their site (www.ilfordphoto.com).

Cheers, Bob.

kmack · Sep 12, 2006

I keep about 2 gallons of water in plastic jugs under the sink with my chemicals. That way the water and chemicals are stabilized at 'room temperature' when I need it. I then modify my developing time based on the room temp and developer. I refill my water after each session.

I use a non hardening fixer and the 'Ilford wash method' as mentioned above. It uses much less water.

Works for me.

Bruce Osgood · Sep 12, 2006

mortimer said:
Can anyone offer recommendations for film developers that can withstand temperatures that fluctuate by +/- 5 degrees C? With my current budget, new equipment isn't an option (which is why I'm switching from Provia to Pan-F), so I'm hoping there's something that will do a decent job with less than ideal conditions, and preferably something readily available (ie: Kodak or Ilford).
QUOTE]

As others have said, any developer will work within a small swing of 1/2-C. As long as that developer maintains that temperature throughout the time the film is in it. And subsequent liquids need to be in that range also.

I have been using Pan F+ and like the film a lot. I just processed a roll in the home brew equivalent of Kodaks' D-72 1+3, 14 Min., 20-c. The results are very good.

andrewz · Sep 12, 2006

I'm wondering what type of work your doing. If I'm doing fine prints, I'm going to fix my water source. Or go with the jug's of room temp water for your wash at least that way all the chemicals and water are the same temp.

I love Diafine for a cheap developer, one year in school I shot everything with Tri-X at 1600 and used one batch of diafine for the entire year. It had great contrast, loved the grain, did make it difficult to shoot in bright daylight.

jim appleyard · Sep 12, 2006

Bruce (Camclicker) said:
mortimer said:

I have been using Pan F+ and like the film a lot. I just processed a roll in the home brew equivalent of Kodaks' D-72 1+3, 14 Min., 20-c. The results are very good.

Click to expand...

Hi Bruce,

Do you by chance mean a homebrew of D-7*6*? My time for Pan-F in D-76 1+3 is 15 min; close enough. I know some folks do process film in Dektol, D-72. Is that what you're doing? Simply curious.

fatboy22 · Sep 12, 2006

You could use good old Kodak D76. Very reliable, easy to find.

Jamie

Bob F. · Sep 12, 2006

I do not use PanF myself so can't recommend anything from experience but here's Ilford's opinion on the best Ilford developer for PanF+...

Code:

CHOOSING THE BEST ILFORD DEVELOPER FOR THE JOB
Manual processing (eg spiral tank, dish/tray, deep tank) and rotary processors

				Liquid 		Powder
Best overall image quality 	ILFOTEC DD-X 	ID-11 (stock)
Finest grain 			ILFOTEC DD-X 	PERCEPTOL (stock)
Maximum sharpness 		ILFOTEC DD-X 	ID-11 (1+3)

The datasheet for PanF is on the Ilford web site.

Good luck, Bob.

Arelia99 · Sep 12, 2006

Water temp...

I have, after experimenting, found that what does the trick is a cold pack. First I mix the Dev, fix, and bath in mason jars (I use distilled water for this). Then I fill the sink with cold water from the tap. I place the three mason jars in the water filled sink. Then I get a cold pack from the freezer. the kind that looks like frozen blue water, and put it in the sink. I let this sit for a bit while I watch tv. After a few minutes I test the temperature of the developer. It usually reads 68...or if I leave it for too long 66. I then process the film. This set up is really easy...and I also use the Ilford wash method of inversion...

The cold pack works wonders!

Nancy

mortimer · Sep 12, 2006

Thanks for all the tips, to everyone. I know this seems pretty basic for most of you, but for the past 9 years all I've been using is labs for c41 and e6, followed by scanners and photoshop, until the newspaper industry went entirely to the dark side. Photojournalism school doesn't really teach you much about darkroom work, even though I learned the basics on how to use one, so I'll apologize in advance for the other dumb questions I will undoubtedly ask related to darkrooms as I stumble through remembering the little I once knew and adding to that with what I'll learn along the way.

Bruce Osgood · Sep 12, 2006

jim appleyard said:
Bruce (Camclicker) said:

Hi Bruce,

Do you by chance mean a homebrew of D-7*6*? My time for Pan-F in D-76 1+3 is 15 min; close enough. I know some folks do process film in Dektol, D-72. Is that what you're doing? Simply curious.

Click to expand...

Yes I do/did mean D-76. Thanks for pointing that out, I would probably develop the next roll in D-72.

MattKing · Sep 12, 2006

mortimer said:
Thanks for all the tips, to everyone. I know this seems pretty basic for most of you, but for the past 9 years all I've been using is labs for c41 and e6, followed by scanners and photoshop, until the newspaper industry went entirely to the dark side. Photojournalism school doesn't really teach you much about darkroom work, even though I learned the basics on how to use one, so I'll apologize in advance for the other dumb questions I will undoubtedly ask related to darkrooms as I stumble through remembering the little I once knew and adding to that with what I'll learn along the way.

mortimer:

I think we recently came to a consensus here in another thread - there is no such thing as a dumb question. If you don't know the answer, you shouldn't hesitate to ask.

We might refer you to another resource, or suggest use of the search function (always a good idea before you ask a question) but we will be glad to help if we can.

Right Roger?

Matt

nworth · Sep 19, 2006

Just adjusting the developing time to compensate for temperature works well. Divided developers, such as Diafine, have a reputation for working well over wide temperature variations with a minimum of fuss. But some of the divided formulations may not work as well with modern films as the did previously, so test before committing any valuable shots.

P C Headland · Sep 20, 2006

I'll echo what others have said.

Prepare all your jugs of water and a water bath (sink, plastic basin) before hand at the right temperature. You need enough water (in jugs) to mix your developer (if you are using a one-shot like Rodinal or HC110), plus enough for a stop bath and rinse. Put your fixer and other chemicals in the water bath to keep the temperature constant (I do everything at 20C).

For rinsing, do a search on "Ilford wash method".

Diafine works over a wide temperature range, but you don't really want the temperature to change rapidly during the development cycle. As others said, it lasts forever. Like all developers, it works better with some films than others.

You should be able to find Rodinal (or a clone) or something like HC110 at a good photographic supply store. They are both nearly always used one-shot, and are liquids that in undiluted form last a long, long time.

Good luck!

Harry Lime · Sep 20, 2006

How about Divided D76?

These type of developers don't seem to be very affected by temperature.
But as everyone said, plus or minus 5 degrees isn't a big deal.

HL

Good developer for fluctuating temperatures?

mortimer

c6h6o3

Stephanie Brim

Lachlan Young

Stephanie Brim

Lachlan Young

Bob F.

jim appleyard

Stephanie Brim

mortimer

Gerald Koch

Bob F.

kmack

Bruce Osgood

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Arelia99

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Good developer for fluctuating temperatures?

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