Going to buy a Pentax 67 Mark 3, any tips or specific things to check?

[Analogski]

Hi,

This weeknd I’m going to inspect a Pentax 67 (Mark 3), that’s being offered for a good price, including two lenses. The seller says the camera was serviced by ACR (Amsterdam Camera Repairs) in 2023, with a new shutter mechanism, and he still has the paperwork.

Everything looks fine in the ad, but I know appearances can be deceiving. Since this version doesn’t allow dry-firing without film, testing the shutter speeds by ear isn’t straightforward (I’ll probably use the YouTube workaround).

For those familiar with this model, are there any specific things to look out for besides the usual checks (mirror lock-up, light seals, film advance, etc.)?

I really hope this turns out to be a good buy... This is supposed to be my last, beautiful camera purchase in my collection (I say that with mixed feelings, because if I come across another beauty, my backbone tends to be about as firm as an overripe banana ).

Thanks a lot for any insights, and greetings from the Netherlands!

 

[Michael Howard]

Personally I would bring a cheap roll of any film, run it through, just to make sure all the shutter speeds work and the film winding is smooth.

 

[OAPOli]

You can dry fire without film. Open the back, turn the central knob on the counter wheel passed the "1", hold it there and close the back.

You can also use a roll of backing paper if you don't want to waste a roll testing the shutter or film advance.

If the camera has been recently serviced it will last for a long time; consider yourself lucky.

 

[Analogski]

You can dry fire without film. Open the back, turn the central knob on the counter wheel passed the "1", hold it there and close the back.

You can also use a roll of backing paper if you don't want to waste a roll testing the shutter or film advance.

If the camera has been recently serviced it will last for a long time; consider yourself lucky.

Thanks. Should I also inspect the shutter curtain with open back? Or is testing/hearing the shutter speeds good enough?

 

[abruzzi]

I assume by "mark 3" you mean the model marked "67", not the 6x7 or 6x7 MLU?

For any of the pre-67II models I'd check the chain (I'm not sue if the 67II used a chain.) If they have a metered prism, there are some specific requirements about how to change the prism. If you do it wrong you break the chain that links the lens' aperture dial to a lever on the prism that "communicates" that so the open aperture metering works correctly. If you (or the seller) dont' want to remove the lens and prism, power the prism up and adjust the aperture up and down and look to see if the meter correctly reflect the changing of the aperture.

If you have a roll of 120 backing paper and a spool, you can easily use that to test the advance (something that can go bad on these.) as well as the the shutter, though without actually shooting and developing film you won't really be able to tell much. If you load a roll of film, and have the time to develop it, make sure that one of your test shots is at 1/1000 so you can make sure the shutter doesn't cap (thats when the trailing curtain catches up with the leading curtain before they are past the frame. This will cause a portion of the frame to be unexposed.

If one of the lenses is a leaf shutter lens (one of the 90s and one of the 165s had leaf shutters) you may want to test how that works. I've never used one of the leaf shutters, so I have no idea how to test it.

 

[Analogski]

Wow, thanks for the advice! I'll use your tips when I'll see the camera.

There are no leaf shutter lenses that come with the camera, only the SMC Pentax 45mm f/4 en SMC Pentax 150mm f/2.8

 

[OAPOli]

Thanks. Should I also inspect the shutter curtain with open back? Or is testing/hearing the shutter speeds good enough?

You can sort of test the shutter by ear up to 1/60s but that won't tell you if there are curtain bounce or capping issues. A fully capping shutter won't let light through when firing, this can occur at 1/1000. You could film the shutter on HFR video, most can do 240 fps. Not good enough to freeze the curtain movement to check the slit but it can show the curtain bouncing.

 

[Hassasin]

What is Pentax 67 Mark 3 ? There was no such thing.

 

[Brendan Quirk]

Make sure the shutter closes at slower shutter speeds. My first one (6x7 MLU) is useless at less than 1/250. Something to do with the capacitors.

 

[Taylor Nankervis]

Come again??
No such camera designated 'Mark 3'.
One could perhaps apply the moniker to the 67ii, but that camera has few carry-over characteristics of the quaint, antique ironmongery that came before it...

The meter coupling chain, mirror solenoid, winding mechanism (especially!) and the dirt-prone shutter speed circuit all come up regularly as areas prone to fault and failure. If the camera had its shutter replaced, was that taken from a like-camera? As no new parts are available, scavenging and grafting major components introduces an element of risk with regard to reliability going forward. The service facility would have thoroughly tested the camera post-graft, so there is some reassurance.

Shutter speeds cannot be tested by ear; they must be machine-tested. Again, replacement of the shutter would have encompassed testing of all shutter speeds as a matter of course.

Try and inspect the camera thoroughly before you commit to purchase. Inspect the battery compartment in the base, and the counter roller (left of the take-up spool chamber in the camera) for damage, but definitely do not play with this very delicate roller.

I am not confident recommending any of these camera now, all of which are over 30 years old (my own included, both serviced every 5 years), some still in occasional use nudging 54 years! Too many, too often make headlines for all the wrong reasons, including user mishaps due to being unfamiliar with aspects of operation. Flipside is these big, heavy, loud and cumbersome beasts of burden can also make headlines as damned good photographic tools!

The last-gen SMC Pentax 67 55mm f4 is a very good lens, but may have an annoying rattle – this won't have a material effect on imaging, just that it can be annoying!
I traded out the lens for this reason about 20 years back, landing a 75mm F2.8AL 'firecracker'. All said and done, the 55mm f4 is a good and useful foundation lens, in capable company with the bigger, faster prime, and every kit needs at least one 2.4–2.8 lens.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Photo: 'Rise of the Belt of Venus',
Lake Bonney, Barmera Riverland, South Australia. 2004.
SMC Pentax 67 55mm f4 + UV(0); RVP50 @EI40
Pentax 67 (1992), multispot/MW-AVG metered (Sekonic L758D).

 

[Hassasin]

Pentax 67 is and always has been quite a workhorse and to this day a reliable one. It is a monster to hand hold, monster to handle period, but continually capable of top quality imaging. Most lenses in the line up are top glass, just like majority of Pentax made lenses. If one you're checking out works, it means it does.No drama evaluating condition, no difference form any other camera. Chain drive for aperture coupling with AE only applies to use of that metered-prism, but more importantly does NOT exist in the P67 II.

But it would help avoid creating "new" (in realty never released) models, as that eventually becomes internet phenom with P67 Mark 3 designation.

If "mark 3" applies to what was officially released as P67 II, then it was an improvement over previous version(s) especially in mirror action and handling with built-in so needed right hand grip + added electronics previous models did not have at all.

If your Mark 3 is something before P67 II, then in spite of some reports I would still suggest models with mirror lock up, even if that feature is only useful under some shooting conditions (it's value to off-setting any in-body induced vibrations has been contested by some users).

Just don't think of P67, any model, simply as a bigger 35mm SLR, it's not even remotely close. It only seems so, shape wise, from afar.

 

[Taylor Nankervis]

Chain drive for aperture coupling with AE only applies to use of that metered-prism, but more importantly does NOT exist in the P67 II.

And what are the well-documented problems of the 67ii?
It's no angel in gilded finery.

Very few new users to the Pentax 67 ecosystem will understand, much less appreciate, that a camera with a broken coupling chain means cumbersome stop-down metering (e.g. "what the hell is that!??") even in the presence of a TTL meter. In the absence of a TTL, users are up to handheld metering (incident or spot), which is an exceptionally useful skill to have and to use, to overcome the paltry tiny 5-stop metering range of the P67. Of the many local, skilled photographers (moving up from 35mm) who have bought into the P67 system, only two are still active and producing — both using handheld metering with alternate finders (no TTL meter). Everybody else, with schoolboy bravado, a computer banging late into the night and cash to throw away, peppered the interwebby with "that's not a camera, that's a tank!!", "too bloody heavy!", "too antique...", "prism keeps falling off...", "more light leaks than a sieve!".... This isn't news to those who research more carefully! They landed cameras that everybody said were reliable, but proved anything but! How they have been used and looked after in their proverbial 9 lives determines well well they work with the next owner who hasn't generally got a clue what to do first — playing with the prism and lens pretty much ends in tears. It is most unlikely a prospective buyer will be afforded the full story of a camera being eye-balled on eBay or other online sites.

The coupling chain replacement is not really a DIY back room job (as much as YouTubers would have you believe!) as calibration of the lens mount post-reassembly is required to achieve OEM accuracy. The flimsy chain is also today replaced with 'TigerTail' multistrand beading wire — very pliable and exceptionally strong (in that incorrect process of mounting/dismounting of lens and prism will not break it) and a hand-down from repairing the Olympus OM4 that has a very similar mechanism.

Nearing retirement (next year, touch-wood), I'll be offloading all of my cameras with a full user and service history so people know exactly what they are buying. That documentation will probably amount to the depth and breadth of a thesis!!

 

[Hassasin]

And what are the well-documented problems of the 67ii?
It's no angel in gilded finery.

Very few new users to the Pentax 67 ecosystem will understand, much less appreciate, that a camera with a broken coupling chain means cumbersome stop-down metering (e.g. "what the hell is that!??") even in the presence of a TTL meter. In the absence of a TTL, users are up to handheld metering (incident or spot), which is an exceptionally useful skill to have and to use, to overcome the paltry tiny 5-stop metering range of the P67. Of the many local, skilled photographers (moving up from 35mm) who have bought into the P67 system, only two are still active and producing — both using handheld metering with alternate finders (no TTL meter). Everybody else, with schoolboy bravado, a computer banging late into the night and cash to throw away, peppered the interwebby with "that's not a camera, that's a tank!!", "too bloody heavy!", "too antique...", "prism keeps falling off...", "more light leaks than a sieve!".... This isn't news to those who research more carefully! They landed cameras that everybody said were reliable, but proved anything but! How they have been used and looked after in their proverbial 9 lives determines well well they work with the next owner who hasn't generally got a clue what to do first — playing with the prism and lens pretty much ends in tears. It is most unlikely a prospective buyer will be afforded the full story of a camera being eye-balled on eBay or other online sites.

The coupling chain replacement is not really a DIY back room job (as much as YouTubers would have you believe!) as calibration of the lens mount post-reassembly is required to achieve OEM accuracy. The flimsy chain is also today replaced with 'TigerTail' multistrand beading wire — very pliable and exceptionally strong (in that incorrect process of mounting/dismounting of lens and prism will not break it) and a hand-down from repairing the Olympus OM4 that has a very similar mechanism.

Nearing retirement (next year, touch-wood), I'll be offloading all of my cameras with a full user and service history so people know exactly what they are buying. That documentation will probably amount to the depth and breadth of a thesis!!

You’re putting a lot of drama into this, sounds like you’ve had a bad experience. P67 is a workhorse and you’re making it look like a dud.

What stop-down metering? Get non-metering prism. Use hand held meter. This is not a rapid fire shooter.

P67 is a great camera with flaws, just like most others.

 

[Analogski]

Come again??
No such camera designated 'Mark 3'.
One could perhaps apply the moniker to the 67ii, but that camera has few carry-over characteristics of the quaint, antique ironmongery that came before it...

The meter coupling chain, mirror solenoid, winding mechanism (especially!) and the dirt-prone shutter speed circuit all come up regularly as areas prone to fault and failure. If the camera had its shutter replaced, was that taken from a like-camera? As no new parts are available, scavenging and grafting major components introduces an element of risk with regard to reliability going forward. The service facility would have thoroughly tested the camera post-graft, so there is some reassurance.

Shutter speeds cannot be tested by ear; they must be machine-tested. Again, replacement of the shutter would have encompassed testing of all shutter speeds as a matter of course.

Try and inspect the camera thoroughly before you commit to purchase. Inspect the battery compartment in the base, and the counter roller (left of the take-up spool chamber in the camera) for damage, but definitely do not play with this very delicate roller.

I am not confident recommending any of these camera now, all of which are over 30 years old (my own included, both serviced every 5 years), some still in occasional use nudging 54 years! Too many, too often make headlines for all the wrong reasons, including user mishaps due to being unfamiliar with aspects of operation. Flipside is these big, heavy, loud and cumbersome beasts of burden can also make headlines as damned good photographic tools!

The last-gen SMC Pentax 67 55mm f4 is a very good lens, but may have an annoying rattle – this won't have a material effect on imaging, just that it can be annoying!
I traded out the lens for this reason about 20 years back, landing a 75mm F2.8AL 'firecracker'. All said and done, the 55mm f4 is a good and useful foundation lens, in capable company with the bigger, faster prime, and every kit needs at least one 2.4–2.8 lens.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Photo: 'Rise of the Belt of Venus',
Lake Bonney, Barmera Riverland, South Australia. 2004.
SMC Pentax 67 55mm f4 + UV(0); RVP50 @EI40
Pentax 67 (1992), multispot/MW-AVG metered (Sekonic L758D).

The seller keeps calling it a Mark 3, but officially it's a 67 (model previous to the 67ii) so it's the 3rd generation

 

[abruzzi]

The seller keeps calling it a Mark 3, but officially it's a 67 (model previous to the 67ii) so it's the 3rd generation

yeah, thats a bit of a misleading description by the seller, it should be enough to call it a 67, vs the 6x7 or the 6x7 MLU.

I have a late 67 and it is very well built. The chain however, seems like a bit of a bad design decision. The main thing you need to know is lenses can be changed with no specific rules--just like any 35mm Pentax, just remove one lens and mount the next. The issue comes from removing and replacing the metered prism. There is no issue with any of the other viewfinder like the non-meterd prism, the waist level finder, the chimney finer, etc. But if the metered prism is removed you MUST remove any lens before remounting the metered prism.

 

[Analogski]

Thanks a lot!

The price for the set is 850 euro. Is this an o.k. price? (In Holland)

 

[Hassasin]

Thanks a lot!

The price for the set is 850 euro. Is this an o.k. price? (In Holland)

What exactly is included in the set, which lenses and which prism ? A photo of the kit would make it easy. Prism, if metering type should be with plain PENATX on front, no Asahi. If it is and it is AE type then it is as good as it gets.

 

[Hassasin]

On chain drive, as long as you follow mounting procedure clearly given in instructions, it should pose no problems, but indeed it was not the best of ideas. Still it is not something that breaks on people when used correctly.

 

[Analogski]

What exactly is included in the set, which lenses and which prism ? A photo of the kit would make it easy. Prism, if metering type should be with plain PENATX on front, no Asahi. If it is and it is AE type then it is as good as it gets.

It's this camera. Comes with SMC Pentax 45mm f/4 and SMC Pentax 150mm f/2.8

 

[Hassasin]

They've sen better days. Prism is correct match to body, it has blue cell (vs. CDS in older ASAHI prism) so assuming it works correctly it's best news. When I read about shutter having been replaced at last service I was wondering what hardship must have taken to get shutter mechanism to replacement state. Now I think there are signs of heavy use on every part of this set. In my judgment 850 EUR is a border line deal, and only acceptable if lenses have no marks, focusing screen is clean, meter is 100% working correctly, and mechanically there are zero issues (service should suggest there are none, but it's been 2 years since).

All in all, if everything is clean, aside from external cosmetics as it can be seen, I would not call a great deal. But it also depends on your priorities.

I tend to value cosmetics as much as internals, partly to cosmetics being prior use indicator, so this I would not buy myself. But value wise: 150 lens is in 150 range, 45 lens is in 250 range, but both in much better cosmetic condition, that body with that prism ??? HERE is a link to one body on ebay.de (close to you) in seemingly great condition (offers taken) .

 

[Hassasin]

Also keep in mind that with that lens pair you are likely to feel the hole between 45 and 150. Getting 90 alone is some 300-350+ getting 105 is more (I disagree on 105 with myth around it, but I'm in minority). So, if you're thinking of standard lens 90/105, it's best bet to hunt for a set with it.

 

[Analogski]

Also keep in mind that with that lens pair you are likely to feel the hole between 45 and 150. Getting 90 alone is some 300-350+ getting 105 is more (I disagree on 105 with myth around it, but I'm in minority). So, if you're thinking of standard lens 90/105, it's best bet to hunt for a set with it.

Thanks for the advice brother! I didn't think about the gap between the 45 and 150. It's true, I want to use the camera primarily for portrait photography for now. So you got me thinking, also about the cosmetics of the camera. It doesn't say everything, but it says something. Also the seller does not want to sent me the photo of the service receipt and the service done on the shutter mechanism for me thinking... I think I'll pass on this one. Thanks for the heads up!

 

[Hassasin]

Thanks for the advice brother! I didn't think about the gap between the 45 and 150. It's true, I want to use the camera primarily for portrait photography for now. So you got me thinking, also about the cosmetics of the camera. It doesn't say everything, but it says something. Also the seller does not want to sent me the photo of the service receipt and the service done on the shutter mechanism for me thinking... I think I'll pass on this one. Thanks for the heads up!

I think it's a good choice for now. I would suggest to monitor these auctions and in 6 months you will find a nice example. As for portrait lens, 150 is not bad, but I would go with 165 instead. There is 2.8 and a Leaf Shutter 4.0 if you need fast flash sync. Either is to me perfect combination for P67 doing portrait work. And there is also a soft focus 120 if you care for one (typically quite cheap).

Also on lenses, prices you see on high side ... well they don't sell. I got a 45 in like new condition for 250, there was a 165/2.8 last year for around 200. Most lenses, with exception of 75 AL and 75 shift, can be had very reasonably, patience is all it takes.