God given gift or just practice?

[frank]

I've found this thread very interesting. I would have never expected as many people to have this view.

Same here.

 

[NB23]

Einstein had a wife. She helped him, and is responsible for many of "his" discoveries.
It is a well kept secret.

Just as Tesla, humanity's highest genius. Mileva Maric, Nikola Tesla, and a bunch of artists, will never be recognized as the greatest by the mainstream because of all the BS and politics involved.

Being renowned artists involves a lot of BS work unrelated to the arts. And too many con artists make it big, thanks to them playing the game well.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

The point behind all of the examples in my posts is to illustrate the wide diversity of talent levels, traits, capabilities, and intelligence that is demonstrably present in the human population. The idea that every single person within that population is somehow born with the exact same level of raw potential is ludicrous. We are not a species of clones.

We all have varying heights, weights, hair color, skin color, shoe sizes, and IQs. Depending on the field of endeavor different combinations of these may allow for greater or lesser levels of individual achievement. And each of us, including Einstein, are capped in our maximum potential by these same varying combinations.

General consensus holds that Einstein had an approximate adult IQ of around 160. Using that potential, along with all of the other traits that made him a singular individual, he rewrote the scientific canons of his time.

But he was not the most intelligent person the world has ever seen. Remember Bobby Fisher? The chess master? His IQ has been estimated to have been almost 30 points higher than Einstein, reportedly approaching 190.

Think about that for a moment...

Bobby Fisher was as far above Einstein as Einstein was above many of the members reading this post. That's a staggering reality to imagine.

The point in all of this being that Life, including human life, is a full spectrum continuum. Not a discreetly bounded small set of discreet possibilities. We have ugly to beautiful. Poor to rich. Stupid to brilliant. Lazy to industrious. Dull to clever. Quiet to chatty. Sickly to healthy. Runts to alphas. Small feet to big feet. Limited potential to extraordinary potential. And yes, even physiologically male to female.

And for each of these characteristics, samples exist from all points in between these pairs of end points. We are a continuum.

Each of your unique combinations of all of the traits that make up our species make you the unique individual that you are. There's a reason we each have unique irises in our eyes and unique patterns on our fingertips.

So the next time you should strive and fail, know that it's not because you were lacking in dedication and lazy in implementation. Rather, it's because you are a diversified human being who is working through the process of finding success, at whatever level of potential you were granted at birth, with the tools you have available as a result. And your failure is simply a necessary part of the process of creating success. So keep going.

Even better, if you should see someone else struggling to do the same, know that its possible that person may not have been blessed with the same grouping of positive characteristics that you received. And that person may live a bit lower on the continuum curve than you do. So perhaps count your blessings, and offer to help that person along if you can.

Einstein was known to have helped very young school children with their arithmetic homework problems. It's part of the responsibility of being granted a higher slot on the curve of Life...

Ken

 

[Dinesh]

Einstein had a wife. She helped him, and is responsible for many of "his" discoveries.
It is a well kept secret.

Is there any proof of this claim?

 

[NB23]

Is there any proof of this claim?

Many interesting links in the internet.
But even before the internet and google existed, obviously, there was serious talk about her discoveries. But what's a woman to do in that era where women were disregarded as people, especially in a exclusive scientific man's world. Even today, women are discredited when it comes to research and discoveries.

http://www.teslasociety.com/Mileva.htm


http://www.pbs.org/opb/einsteinswife/milevastory/
"an image emerges of a young woman whose great scientific promise ran up against the formidable institutional and social barriers that kept all but the most resilient women"...

So on. Lots of interesting things can be found.

 

[frank]

The point behind all of the examples in my posts is to illustrate the wide diversity of talent levels, traits, capabilities, and intelligence that is demonstrably present in the human population. The idea that every single person within that population is somehow born with the exact same level of raw potential is ludicrous. We are not a species of clones.

We all have varying heights, weights, hair color, skin color, shoe sizes, and IQs. Depending on the field of endeavor different combinations of these may allow for greater or lesser levels of individual achievement. And each of us, including Einstein, are capped in our maximum potential by these same varying combinations.

General consensus holds that Einstein had an approximate adult IQ of around 160. Using that potential, along with all of the other traits that made him a singular individual, he rewrote the scientific canons of his time.

But he was not the most intelligent person the world has ever seen. Remember Bobby Fisher? The chess master? His IQ has been estimated to have been almost 30 points higher than Einstein, reportedly approaching 190.,

Think about that for a moment...

Bobby Fisher was as far above Einstein as Einstein was above many of the members reading this post. That's a staggering reality to imagine.

The point in all of this being that Life, including human life, is a full spectrum continuum. Not a discreetly bounded small set of discreet possibilities. We have ugly to beautiful. Poor to rich. Stupid to brilliant. Lazy to industrious. Dull to clever. Quiet to chatty. Sickly to healthy. Runts to alphas. Small feet to big feet. Limited potential to extraordinary potential. And yes, even physiologically male to female.

And for each of these characteristics, samples exist from all points in between these pairs of end points. We are a continuum.

Each of your unique combinations of all of the traits that make up our species make you the unique individual that you are. There's a reason we each have unique irises in our eyes and unique patterns on our fingertips.

So the next time you should strive and fail, know that it's not because you were lacking in dedication and lazy in implementation. Rather, it's because you are a diversified human being who is working through the process of finding success, at whatever level of potential you were granted at birth, with the tools you have available as a result. And your failure is simply a necessary part of the process of creating success. So keep going.

Even better, if you should see someone else struggling to do the same, know that its possible that person may not have been blessed with the same grouping of positive characteristics that you received. And that person may live a bit lower on the continuum curve than you do. So perhaps count your blessings, and offer to help that person along if you can.

Einstein was known to have helped very young school children with their arithmetic homework problems. It's part of the responsibility of being granted a higher slot on the curve of Life...

Ken

Plus infinity. Well said!

 

[mark]

I've been drawing for years. Draw every day. Have done this since I was in my twenties. I am 43. I have improved. One of students, who is 12 can run circles around me in the drawing arena. My 20 years of practice can't touch the ability he was born with.

 

[lxdude]

http://www.pbs.org/opb/einsteinswife/milevastory/
"an image emerges of a young woman whose great scientific promise ran up against the formidable institutional and social barriers that kept all but the most resilient women"...

Another quote from that:
"While there is little doubt that Mileva served as a sounding board and occasional assistant to her husband, there is no evidence to suggest that she made substantive contributions to his work."

So your response to a request for "any proof" directly contradicts your claim.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Very well spoken, Ken. And you are so good to bring up the part about responsibility to help those less fortunate.

The point behind all of the examples in my posts is to illustrate the wide diversity of talent levels, traits, capabilities, and intelligence that is demonstrably present in the human population. The idea that every single person within that population is somehow born with the exact same level of raw potential is ludicrous. We are not a species of clones.

We all have varying heights, weights, hair color, skin color, shoe sizes, and IQs. Depending on the field of endeavor different combinations of these may allow for greater or lesser levels of individual achievement. And each of us, including Einstein, are capped in our maximum potential by these same varying combinations.

General consensus holds that Einstein had an approximate adult IQ of around 160. Using that potential, along with all of the other traits that made him a singular individual, he rewrote the scientific canons of his time.

But he was not the most intelligent person the world has ever seen. Remember Bobby Fisher? The chess master? His IQ has been estimated to have been almost 30 points higher than Einstein, reportedly approaching 190.

Think about that for a moment...

Bobby Fisher was as far above Einstein as Einstein was above many of the members reading this post. That's a staggering reality to imagine.

The point in all of this being that Life, including human life, is a full spectrum continuum. Not a discreetly bounded small set of discreet possibilities. We have ugly to beautiful. Poor to rich. Stupid to brilliant. Lazy to industrious. Dull to clever. Quiet to chatty. Sickly to healthy. Runts to alphas. Small feet to big feet. Limited potential to extraordinary potential. And yes, even physiologically male to female.

And for each of these characteristics, samples exist from all points in between these pairs of end points. We are a continuum.

Each of your unique combinations of all of the traits that make up our species make you the unique individual that you are. There's a reason we each have unique irises in our eyes and unique patterns on our fingertips.

So the next time you should strive and fail, know that it's not because you were lacking in dedication and lazy in implementation. Rather, it's because you are a diversified human being who is working through the process of finding success, at whatever level of potential you were granted at birth, with the tools you have available as a result. And your failure is simply a necessary part of the process of creating success. So keep going.

Even better, if you should see someone else struggling to do the same, know that its possible that person may not have been blessed with the same grouping of positive characteristics that you received. And that person may live a bit lower on the continuum curve than you do. So perhaps count your blessings, and offer to help that person along if you can.

Einstein was known to have helped very young school children with their arithmetic homework problems. It's part of the responsibility of being granted a higher slot on the curve of Life...

Ken

 

[removed account4]

thomas

plenty of people help the less fortunate. these people are not geniuses
but regular people ... and plenty of people help youngsters with their math
every night if they have school aged children.

while i think it is nice that einstein gave-back, one doesn't need to be a genius to give back
one just has to be willing to be less of an egoist and give something of themselves.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

You missed the point, John.

Ken

 

[removed account4]

...

 

[pdeeh]

I wish I could acquire the skill required to ignore this damn thread

 

[removed account4]

I wish I could acquire the skill required to ignore this damn thread

+1 !

 

[NB23]

Another quote from that:
"While there is little doubt that Mileva served as a sounding board and occasional assistant to her husband, there is no evidence to suggest that she made substantive contributions to his work."

So your response to a request for "any proof" directly contradicts your claim.

Yawn.

The einstein that we all love, the guy making a funny face with his tongue out and a cute meme attached to it is nothing else then a marketing product. We then grow with the preconceived idea about how funny and crazy he was and yet how accessible and smart he was. The tre story, however, is another thing. His wife was behind him for a lot if "his" findings. That's all i will tell you.
You can make a search for yourself. But go to the sources, don't just rely on western medias, the same ones that created Edison into a genious while he was nothing more then a crook versus tesla, if you know what i mean.

Just as hcb has had a lot of pictures with his name on it that were actually taken by a few photojournalists working with him, under his apprenticeship.

Yes, those are true stories.

 

[cliveh]

Also note teaching is an entire skillset on its own. Being a top performer in your field says nothing about your ability to teach others.

In terms of teaching I think there are many skills such as drawing and photography where teaching is not that useful and the role of facilitator for practice is more useful. With regards to my OP, I think HCB was someone who acquired his skill through practice, with no gift at birth. Others may disagree.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

Also note teaching is an entire skillset on its own. Being a top performer in your field says nothing about your ability to teach others.

So true. But I wasn't necessarily referring to only top performers.

The point missed earlier was that because life is a continuum, it doesn't matter where one falls across the spectrum. With but two single exceptions (those being the true highest and lowest individuals at each end of the scale) everyone else is guaranteed to have at least one person (and more frequently billions more) both above and below them.

So regardless of where someone finds themselves, if one encounters an individual struggling at a lower level, consider pausing with an appropriate offer to help.

That's all I was saying.



Ken

 

[Dinesh]

The tre story, however, is another thing. His wife was behind him for a lot if "his" findings. That's all i will tell you.
You can make a search for yourself. But go to the sources, don't just rely on western medias,..

Can you point me in the direction of those sources?

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Have you seen elephant paintings? Made by elephant, they are good actually.

I have heard people quote 'I wish I could draw but I can't and that's why I do photography'. In my opinion the ability to draw, or paint, or sculpt is not a God given gift at birth, but one that can be acquired with practice, like many other techniques, such as bricklaying, plastering, photography, etc. What do other think?

If it is your opinion, I guess, it is based on your experience to draw, or paint, or sculpt. Sounds like you were able to get it from giftless to advanced level.
If not, it is not. But based on comparison of photography to plastering... It seems you aren't taking photography as art but getting of sharp, clean image. If so, yes. Where are plenty of paid photographers who do plastering.

 

[barzune]

During the 17th to the 20th century, drawing was one of the required skills taught to all British Naval and Military officers, as a matter of course.

It was a basic requirement, as were mathematical skills, to qualify for commission.

Part of the training was technical draughtsmanship; others included mapmaking, botanical and animal illustration, and perspective landscape illustration.

These are technical skills, which can be taught and learned to a high degree of craftsmanship, and can be perfectly delivered without the inspiration that would
raise the work to a level of "ART".

 

[cliveh]

During the 17th to the 20th century, drawing was one of the required skills taught to all British Naval and Military officers, as a matter of course.

It was a basic requirement, as were mathematical skills, to qualify for commission.

Part of the training was technical draughtsmanship; others included mapmaking, botanical and animal illustration, and perspective landscape illustration.

These are technical skills, which can be taught and learned to a high degree of craftsmanship, and can be perfectly delivered without the inspiration that would
raise the work to a level of "ART".

What may not be considered art at one stage in history could be considered art at a later date.

 

[Old-N-Feeble]

Have you seen elephant paintings? Made by elephant, they are good actually.<snip>

Search youtube for "elephant paintings" without the quotes.

[video=youtube;He7Ge7Sogrk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He7Ge7Sogrk#t=216[/video]

 

[Bill Burk]

All from memory?

 

[Bill Burk]

General consensus holds that Einstein had an approximate adult IQ of around 160.

I had no idea of that. I do think that working as a clerk in a patent office, might have exposed him to so many ideas that he learned to appreciate ideas.

 

[markbarendt]

Also note teaching is an entire skillset on its own. Being a top performer in your field says nothing about your ability to teach others.

Agreed.