God given gift or just practice?

Thomas Bertilsson · Oct 21, 2014

frank said:
Here's what Jack Kerouac thinks about this:

http://www.brainpickings.org/2014/1...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

What an fantastically interesting article and perspective. It sometimes DOES help to study the words themselves, even though the word genius was not used by the OP.

Ken Nadvornick · Oct 21, 2014

That Einstein and Kerouac might possibly agree on anything would be a sobering thought in itself.

I also found the Kierkegaard click-through regarding "the jealousy behind all mockery" to be an equally appropriate read, albeit in a different context beyond this particular thread...

Ken

cliveh · Oct 21, 2014

With regard to my original post, I accept that some people have different cognitive abilities at different stages of their life, if high (some may refer this as genius). However, my OP was about skill which I maintain can be acquired by practice. This includes photography, drawing, painting and so on.

Thomas Bertilsson · Oct 21, 2014

cliveh said:
With regard to my original post, I accept that some people have different cognitive abilities at different stages of their life, if high (some may refer this as genius). However, my OP was about skill which I maintain can be acquired by practice. This includes photography, drawing, painting and so on.

I think there is probably consensus across the thread that some kind of skill can be obtained in just about anything with practice. I have, for example, notoriously bad hand writing. But with practice it has gotten better. That is without question something I believe anybody can improve with practice, assuming they have suitable motor skills etc.

Maybe it's a matter of simple misinterpretation. I feel that many here, perhaps including myself, tried to distinguish between those who become great at what they do and everybody else, and perhaps mistakenly so.

MattKing · Oct 21, 2014

I think the disagreement is because of the thread title.

I differentiate between someone who is "gifted" and someone who is merely "skilled".

Ken Nadvornick · Oct 21, 2014

I think what Kerouac was saying is that the gifted can be skilled, but the skilled can never through additional practice become gifted. Most people know this intuitively. And those that are at peace with it are often also at peace with themselves.

One of fellow APUG member Chris Lange's signature lines sums it up concisely and well,

"If you don't have it, then you don't have it."

Knowing if you do, or don't, is a crucial point in one's process of self-validation.

Ken

Thomas Bertilsson · Oct 21, 2014

MattKing said:
I think the disagreement is because of the thread title.

I differentiate between someone who is "gifted" and someone who is merely "skilled".

And how sad it is to view gifted people who does not pursue the skill to benefit themselves and others from their gift...

markbarendt · Oct 22, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
I think what Kerouac was saying is that the gifted can be skilled, but the skilled can never through additional practice become gifted. Most people know this intuitively. And those that are at peace with it are often also at peace with themselves.

One of fellow APUG member Chris Lange's signature lines sums it up concisely and well,

"If you don't have it, then you don't have it."

Knowing if you do, or don't, is a crucial point in one's process of self-validation.

Ken

This argument discounts the disparity in the individual environments that we each exist in, the choices we each make, the interests we follow, and the people we have around us.

Here's one example http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...etter-than-rich-kids-who-do-everything-wrong/

markbarendt · Oct 22, 2014

Thomas Bertilsson said:
And how sad it is to view gifted people who does not pursue the skill to benefit themselves and others from their gift...

Not necessarily.

Even though I had developed exceptional skills/talents in snow skiing, for example, I had other plans for life.

Skiing was a youthful hobby/endeavor, I never developed a significant interest in making it a lifetime vocation. I was fast enough, but I never saw it as a way to make a real living/spend my life; I preferred the ocean and wanted to do research (something that I was also good at), skiing was a just pastime.

I wound up in careers I never imagined I'd be in when I was 18. Instead of research I followed a more "mechanical" path for most of my work life. I followed what I had done and been taught as a child was a way to make a living; I got a "real" job. It is what my family and friends and school and the society around me "expected" of "someone like me".

I think part of my thought/path/decision/outcome, whatever you might call it, was fostered by the way I was raised, by my social status, my education, the people I hung with, the opportunities I had, and yes probably in some small part, my genetics.

I believe how we each turn out is a compilation of a zillion things and a lot of chance. We build on what came before us: the foundations and patterns our parents and communities provide for us.

Instead of doing research I "ended up" working for wages and raising 2 kids in a way that fosters them toward breaking the mold I was expected to fit into. Both are each succeeding in ways that were for me just pipe dreams.

I got to use different gifts than I planned on, different than others saw in me, that's ok: I have been successful in that endeavor and that will help change the world. And I'm not done yet.

Bill Burk · Oct 22, 2014

We keep coming back to the thought that "ingenuity can't be taught."

I don't believe that. You might think they "don't teach it in school."

But they do. It's called "Art," "Photography," "Music."

Other ways it can be taught. My stepfather is a genius in the root of the word sense. He creates. My mom too, she's a true artist. But my stepfather often dedicates time when we get together to stress the importance of finding easier ways to do things. Or not do things if that's better.

So I would say that it can be taught, but it's not always part of the curriculum.

Ken Nadvornick · Oct 22, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
So it's time for me to quietly smile at the microphone and just allow people to believe whatever makes them the most comfortable, regardless of what the data actually says.

markbarendt · Oct 22, 2014

Michael R 1974 said:
I envy your ability to smile through this. I'm still shocked so many people here honestly believe for any technical skill the sky is equally the limit for everyone.

I'm shocked that people, in these enlightened times, still believes that a god or genetics plays some outsized role in determining successful/exceptional outcome of individuals or races.

There are lots of reasons that people end up doing different things, having different successes.

Consider this question:

Is it an inate lack of ability (a genetic predisposition/God given failing) or a lack of opportunity (good old boys protecting their turf) that has kept women from having equal representation in physics, computer science, engineering.... ?

Ken Nadvornick · Oct 23, 2014

Michael R 1974 said:
I envy your ability to smile through this.

Been down this road before and know the high cost of parking your car at the end of the trip...

Bill Burk · Oct 23, 2014

I know music analogies are getting tiresome, but an unsettled matter recently caught my imagination, and I feel it might add something to this discussion.

Randy California may have been the genius (in the Kerouac sense) behind the song played at every prom in the seventies. His tune might not have been highly polished. But it sounds to me like he was the one with the spark.

cliveh · Oct 28, 2014

Perhaps this guy has the answer:-

http://petapixel.com/2014/10/26/10-nonsense-tips-become-better-photographer/

lxdude · Oct 29, 2014

Bill Burk said:
I know music analogies are getting tiresome, but an unsettled matter recently caught my imagination, and I feel it might add something to this discussion.

Randy California may have been the genius (in the Kerouac sense) behind the song played at every prom in the seventies. His tune might not have been highly polished. But it sounds to me like he was the one with the spark.

I see how one could be Led to that conclusion.

God given gift or just practice?

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