Glue for repairing wooden cameras

[koraks]

Thanks for that summary, @Don Heisz
I'm not a 'glue-ologist' but what you said matches my experience perfectly.

 

[Ian Grant]

There are occasions where I've found Super Glue is the best option for the exact reason @Don Heisz mentions "Superglue is a very poor choice not due to lack of bond strength but due to how much of it will disappear into the wood grain."

I restore a lot of Thornton Pickard, and similar, roller blind shutters, probably over 300 in the last 15 or 16 years, sometimes the wood needs consolidating and Super Glue acts as an excellent wood hardener because of the absorption., needs careful use though.

Ian

 

[Sirius Glass]

When gluing wood, the glue used matters much less than how clean the surfaces are, that the parts are in some way adequately clamped together, and that nothing is moved until the glue has cured. Superglue is a very poor choice not due to lack of bond strength but due to how much of it will disappear into the wood grain. After using it, you also would never be able to use wood glue on the joint. Yellow "carpenter's" glue is normally the best choice for clean, never-been-glued wood. White glue is about the same. The Gorilla glue mentioned above that people say expands is polyurethane glue - which is better than carpenter's glue but you need to properly clamp the pieces together. Generally, masking tape can provide enough clamping pressure for carpenter's glue - not the case with polyurethane, which needs a stronger clamp. The advantage of polyurethane glue is you can use it to join very irregular pieces or pieces that have been previously glued.
Hide glue is great but you need a way to heat it. The tack is almost instant and, if you need to undo something, a hair dryer will melt the glue so you can dismantle the joint.
Titebond is a pva glue just like any other pva glue. Titebond III has additives to make it water resistant.

Gorilla Glue must be securely clamped for 24 hours or you will be disappointed. At least there is time to adjust it, unlike cyanoacrylate which has no forgiveness.

 

[Jonathan-sv]

When gluing wood, the glue used matters much less than how clean the surfaces are, that the parts are in some way adequately clamped together, and that nothing is moved until the glue has cured. Superglue is a very poor choice not due to lack of bond strength but due to how much of it will disappear into the wood grain. After using it, you also would never be able to use wood glue on the joint. Yellow "carpenter's" glue is normally the best choice for clean, never-been-glued wood. White glue is about the same. The Gorilla glue mentioned above that people say expands is polyurethane glue - which is better than carpenter's glue but you need to properly clamp the pieces together. Generally, masking tape can provide enough clamping pressure for carpenter's glue - not the case with polyurethane, which needs a stronger clamp. The advantage of polyurethane glue is you can use it to join very irregular pieces or pieces that have been previously glued.
Hide glue is great but you need a way to heat it. The tack is almost instant and, if you need to undo something, a hair dryer will melt the glue so you can dismantle the joint.
Titebond is a pva glue just like any other pva glue. Titebond III has additives to make it water resistant.

Don't underestimate hide glue. I use it for a lot of things now, not just musical instruments, because you can keep the dried pellets almost forever. When I need some, I soak them with just enough water to cover them, and after a couple of hours, I melt it in the microwave oven. What I don't use goes into the fridge, and can be melted in the microwave when I need some again. You can thin it with water to make it penetrate better, and it actually sticks to old hide glue. It isn't as convenient as grabbing a bottle, but I never have to worry about how old it is (the stuff in fridge just lasts a couple of weeks...). Any serious violin maker uses hide glue and nothing else, in part because of tradition, but also because it is completely reversible. So if you worry about undoing something, I'd use hide glue. It's a lot easier to open up compared to pva.

 

[koraks]

So if you worry about undoing something, I'd use hide glue.

There's a good reason why it remains being used a lot in e.g. musical instruments. Well, string instruments in any case.

 

[Don_ih]

Don't underestimate hide glue.

I didn't. But it's not something most people will want to mess with. A violin maker or repairer would be scorned if he used anything else, though. Not only the ability to release the bond - a lot of makers firmly believe the violin would not produce the correct tone unless you use hide glue.

 

[Jonathan-sv]

I didn't. But it's not something most people will want to mess with. A violin maker or repairer would be scorned if he used anything else, though. Not only the ability to release the bond - a lot of makers firmly believe the violin would not produce the correct tone unless you use hide glue.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were underestimating hide glue. I merely wanted to point out that a lot of people think it is a real bother and old-fashioned but it doesn't actually take a lot more effort to use it and it has a lot of advantages. You don't need an electric, thermostatically controlled glue pot. But I'll admit that I also use PVA (sometimes) and even polyurethane and epoxy. It depends on what I'm glueing and what it will be exposed to.

I think the most important thing with any glue, aside from the cleanliness (which you mentioned) is that the pieces have to fit together well. You shouldn't really be able to see the glue line afterwards (if the grain is parallel). I've glued pieces with PVA where the glue line is invisible and the wood gives way before the glue fails. I like to clamp everything, even with PVA, and my wife claims that I think I never have enough clamps. But a close, clean fit might not be possible if you're repairing a wooden camera.

I don't think any glue will really fill gaps well with any strength, with the exception of epoxy, but that is another story. Stich-and-glue plywood boats use epoxy. West systems has some interesting fillers that might approximate the color (and maybe even the hardness) of some woods but this is a permanent, non-reversible solution.

 

[eli griggs]

STAY AWAY FROM TITEBOND III !!!!

TITEBOND III will make your camera imposable to have restoration done, as it's no a glue you can loosen up and reverse, like many wood glues can be.

Instead it makes a permanent bond that will no fail, so, if a squared up back view camera frame breaks a single Tbond III glued span, those other joints/corners it is glued to will no come off of the broken lenght, to be replaced.

It is possible a highly skilled machinist could mill the broken corners to make room for a new piece but the labor and setup only present a possibility no a simple disassembly, like can be had with a Titebond and Titebond II or Elmer's white glue joint.

Read more about what Titebond III is and why it's no a good choice for any camera that might want a repair of any of it's glued junctures, before you use it at all.

 

[BobUK]

Whilst we are going full tilt on woodwork, it might be interesting to mention wood polishes that contain silicone.

I have read somewhere, wood surfaces that have had silicone polishes used on them can be difficult to glue when repairing as the silicone penetrates deep into the wood, filling the pores and rendering a decent glue job very week.

Also it becomes impossible to apply stains at a later date.

 

[Jonathan-sv]

It is not only stains that can't be applied, basically most finishes will not stick and cause something called 'fish eyes' where the finish is unable to 'wet' the wood or underlying surface.

 

[Don_ih]

wood surfaces that have had silicone polishes used on them can be difficult to glue

That is true. Silicone is very difficult to get rid of and shouldn't be used on anything you may want to change (or paint).

Wax-based polishes are also bad for applying a new finish - unless the new finish is wax-based. That too will mess up a joint you want to glue, but some solvent or other would get rid of it easily enough (paint thinner would probably work).

 

[spoolman]

Hello All: I received a sage piece of advice from Ian Grant for filling in gaps and gouges. Get some saw dust from the wood you're working with, mix it with some of the glue being used for the repair and use it as a filler.

Just wait until dry,sand and everything should look ok.

Doug