Glacial acetic acid for prints?

[mfohl]

Hello Folks, a good friend gave me a brand new unopened gallon jug of Kodak Glacial Acetic Acid (followed by some numbers). The brief instructions on the label tell me how to mix it for film and show a capacity for film. I'm assuming the same mixing and capacity apply to prints; Kodak Stop Bath can be used for both film and prints in the same dilution.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Cheers,

-- Mark

 

[pgomena]

You are correct.

Glacial acetic acid is nasty stuff. Wear gloves and eye protection and dilute it in a well-ventilated space or outdoors. It is very irritating to eyes and lungs.

 

[mr rusty]

From an old thread

Most acetic acid that you by is 28% acetic acid solution. You dilute it to make stop bath. The glacial acetic acid is much more concentrated (so be more careful not to gat any on your hands). Therefore, you need smaller quantities to dilute it to a stop bath. The following is from the Freestyle website:

Mixing Stop Bath From Glacial Acetic Acid

You can make a working solution of stop bath from glacial (100%) acetic acid in two steps. First, dilute the full-strength acetic acid down to 28 %. To do this, mix 3 parts of glacial acetic acid with 8 parts of water.

For example, 3 oz. acetic acid + 8 oz. water, or 6 oz. acetic acid + 16 oz. water. Always pour the acetic acid into the water to avoid splashing.You can store the 28% acetic acid solution for later use.

Next, to make working solution: Measure our 48 ml (milliliters) of your acetic acid solution, and then add to 1 liter water.

If it's glacial be careful it's strong stuff. Don't sniff the bottle! Don't ask me how I know.

Don't forget " Do what you ought ter (to), add the acid to the water"

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Glacial acetic acid is also flammable so keep it away from flames. It freezes at 17C which can cause the bottle to rupture.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

It freezes at 17C which can cause the bottle to rupture.

I believe the term "glacial" refers to the fact that when frozen the stuff looks somewhat like water ice?

In any case, I keep my one-gallon plastic jug inside of a larger covered plastic bucket resting on the floor. Just in case.

If the jug ever ruptured I would still need eye and breathing protection to clean it up, but it wouldn't be exponentially worse by also being all over the floor.

In use I first dilute to ~28% (7 parts glacial + 18 parts distilled water). I then re-dilute this stock dilution down to the Kodak SB-1 concentration (48ml + 1000ml water) for actual use. This way I need only open up the glacial jug once every year or so.

When I do open it the dilution procedure from glacial down to ~28% is a full-on safety goggles, nitrile gloves, protective clothing, and ventilation affair. Just in case.

Ken

 

[Photo Engineer]

No, it will not settle. It is like adding salt to water. It dissolves and then sustains a uniform solution as long as it is well mixed.

As for Acetic Acid bursting a container, I am not sure that it expands when frozen. You know that water is one of the few chemicals that expands when frozen and thus ice floats on water. Most all other liquids contract when frozen and thus they settle out.

I have not checked on the density of frozen AA and so I am not sure. Just mentioning it here in case.

It will cause severe burns if it is left in contact with skin, and it will cause a fire if the fumes contact an open flame. When dissolved in water, at 28% or lower, this potential problem has just about vanished.

PE

 

[removed account4]

sorry to derail your thread mark but ...

aside from its purity, what is the UP SIDE of using galacial acetic acid
that is that much better than plain jane, old and inexpensive and less toxic indicator stop bath ?
are there processes that require excessive acid-strength ?


thanks for your expertise!
john

 

[AgX]

It is the same stuff. Just at much higher concentration. And this can be as well advantagous or the contrary, depending on the situation.
But the question remains if one would use a stop bath based on acetic acid anyway, due to its vapor.

 

[mfohl]

Thanks for the great tips Folks. I guess it's a good thing that I gave up smoking long ago! I will put the original container in a bucket, then mix up some working solution.

I knew I could count on APUGers.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Ordinary kitchen cooking or salad dressing vinegar is basically just contaminated acetic acid, so whether it's hazardous or not is a matter of
concentration. I prefer to buy glacial acetic acid for economy then dilute it down, always under a fume hood, well protected. But it takes very little to make an effective stop bath. Even 1/2% seems to work fine. ... One time my wife and I were taking a flight in a typical three-seat section, and the lady next to us was a Coca Cola executive. So my wife asked me if she got her Cola for free. She replied that she would never personally drink it, because every ingredient they use is shipped DOT Hazardous. Yeah, Cola will eventually rot your teeth out. But the concentrated carbonic acid they start with would burn right through you. So it's all relative. If you're doubtful about handling the real deal, buy your acetic acid prediluted to 28%, which is how photo stores usually sell it anyway.

 

[Dr Croubie]

Don't forget " Do what you ought ter (to), add the acid to the water"

We had a saying in High School Chemistry classes, "Unless your **** is limp and flacid, add the water to the acid"
(yes, it was an all-boys school)

 

[mfohl]

Dang. I went to an all boys' school, and I never learned that. I guess I was sleeping ...

 

[Gerald C Koch]

We had a saying in High School Chemistry classes, "Unless your **** is limp and flacid, add the water to the acid"
(yes, it was an all-boys school)

My favorite mnemonic device is no longer politically correct but no one has come up with a better one. "Bad Boys Rape Our Young Girls But Violet Gives Willingly." It gives the color code for resisters and capacitors: black = 0, brown = 1, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, violet, gray, white = 9. Learned in an all male engineering class.

 

[removed account4]

Ordinary kitchen cooking or salad dressing vinegar is basically just contaminated acetic acid, so whether it's hazardous or not is a matter of
concentration. I prefer to buy glacial acetic acid for economy then dilute it down, always under a fume hood, well protected. But it takes very little to make an effective stop bath. Even 1/2% seems to work fine. ... One time my wife and I were taking a flight in a typical three-seat section, and the lady next to us was a Coca Cola executive. So my wife asked me if she got her Cola for free. She replied that she would never personally drink it, because every ingredient they use is shipped DOT Hazardous. Yeah, Cola will eventually rot your teeth out. But the concentrated carbonic acid they start with would burn right through you. So it's all relative. If you're doubtful about handling the real deal, buy your acetic acid prediluted to 28%, which is how photo stores usually sell it anyway.

phosphoric acid too, as well as 15 teaspoons of sugar / 8oz can ..
yeah the acids in coca will burn a hole through you but your stomach is full of HCL which will burn a hole through you too

 

[Truzi]

My favorite mnemonic device is no longer politically correct but no one has come up with a better one. "Bad Boys Rape Our Young Girls But Violet Gives Willingly." It gives the color code for resisters and capacitors: black = 0, brown = 1, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, violet, gray, white = 9. Learned in an all male engineering class.

That's what we were taught in high school electronics class.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

phosphoric acid...

You can either drink it (Coca-Cola), or clean your darkroom stainless steel with it (Naval Jelly).

Or even clean your battleship with it...



Ken

 

[Roger Cole]

That's what we were taught in high school electronics class.

Big Boys RACE Our Young Girls But Violet Generally Wins. = first version I learned, much more acceptable.

 

[Roger Cole]

I echo the "why on earth use the stuff?" questions. Even 28% smells plenty bad. Heck, I changed to citric acid stop because of the fumes from working strength. It costs more than acetic acid stops but is still cheap. I still have plenty of KISB and will use it for RA4 if I find out that citric really doesn't work, but any of the much more friendly acid stops are already so cheap I don't see the point in saving another couple of pennies with glacial. But that's just me.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

I echo the "why on earth use the stuff?" questions.

'Cause if there's not a significant risk of discomfort, disfigurement, or death, it's not real photography??



Ken

 

[Roger Cole]

Well I understand when it's necessary. I keep saying I'm going to do wet plate one day, and that has its risks to be managed. But sheesh, KISB is dirt cheap already and a bottle lasts forever.

 

[mfohl]

Well I understand when it's necessary. I keep saying I'm going to do wet plate one day, and that has its risks to be managed. But sheesh, KISB is dirt cheap already and a bottle lasts forever.

I got a gallon for free. Why waste the stuff?

 

[Doremus Scudder]

Certainly do use it!

You don't want to have to dispose of a gallon of glacial acetic acid. You may have to pass what you have left on to others when you pass on... A gallon will last practically forever!

And, with reasonable caution and proper storage, it is not so terribly dangerous to work with.

Best,

Doremus

 

[cowanw]

Big Boys RACE Our Young Girls But Violet Generally Wins. = first version I learned, much more acceptable.

Thank you Roger.

 

[Roger Cole]

I got a gallon for free. Why waste the stuff?

I might use it too if I got it free. But I wonder why people buy it in the first place, at least for stop bath. There may be alternative process uses for it I'm not aware of.

 

[Roger Cole]

Certainly do use it!

You don't want to have to dispose of a gallon of glacial acetic acid. You may have to pass what you have left on to others when you pass on... A gallon will last practically forever!

And, with reasonable caution and proper storage, it is not so terribly dangerous to work with.

Best,

Doremus

Not so much dangerous as inconvenient and requiring a lot more care. I imagine it wouldn't be that hard to dispose of if you could neutralize it, but I don't know how much base that would take or how much mess it might make. A few cases of baking soda and....