Giving Medium Format a Second Chance

[narin]

So I had a pretty nice Hasselblad 500c/m kit for a year but I ultimately ended up selling it because it was way too big, heavy, and slow for my tastes. Coming from 35mm, I'm used to shooting with lighter, faster, and more compact rangefinders (Leica M6, Leica M3, and a Hasselblad Xpan II). I know that shooting MF is a little slower than 35mm (in terms of setup, focus, and glass), but I felt with the 500c/m, it was too much in the wrong direction for me, especially since most of my shooting is travel/documentary/street. The Hassy also took up way too much space in my travel bags & probably gave me some irreversible back problems lugging it around.

I still want to give MF a second chance and so knowing what I know now, I'm hoping I can find a camera that'll match my tastes and compliment my kit. I've narrowed it down to:

- Mamiya 7
- Fuji GF670
- Rolleiflex 2.8F

Of the three, the Rollei definitely stands out because it's not a rangefinder like the other two and the rest of my kit, but there's something about the Rollei that I've always wanted to try out. Plus, it's super compact and the f/2.8 lens seems to be pretty fast compared with the other two.

Between the Mamiya 7 and GF670, the GF670 looks great because it folds in (but I'm a little weary of reliability with the bellows) and the single-lens system doesn't bother me too much because I've never really been a fan of switching up lenses.

Anybody have feedback on which of the three I should look into getting? If it's not one of these three, I'm hoping to get something a little compact, preferably with a built-in light meter, and light weight. I'd like to keep it < $1500 USD.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Welcome to APUG

I use a Hasselblad 503CX with a prism which handles like a slightly heavier 35mm camera with a better viewfinder and 120 film.

 

[DcAnalogue]

I've a Rollei (3,5F Planar) and it's nice to have and shoot with.
I'd check also for a good older folding camera (Zeiss Ikonta or so).....

 

[Paul Howell]

Before you spring for a Rollei you might want to get a Rolliecord, or Yashica or Minolta TLR to make sure a TLR is right for you. Rather than a 124D look for a Yashica D with the 3.5 4 element taking lens and 2.8 viewing lens. After a dozen rolls if you the enjoy way a TLR works then find a Rollei Planar. I currently have both a Yashica D and 124 and find myself pulling out the D more often as it is a little lighter than a 124 although the 124 with crank film advance is faster.

 

[BrianShaw]

You might be setting yourself up for another round of frustration and disappointment.

 

[NJH]

The two obvious choices which are closest to the Leica RF experience are the Mamiya 6 and the Bronica RF645.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

...
- Mamiya 7
- Fuji GF670
- Rolleiflex 2.8F
...

Based on what you've written, you may feel most comfortable with the Mamiya 7. As someone who also has Leica M cameras, I can tell you that you would love the bright, contrasty, clear viewfinder / rangefinder of the Mamiya 7; I think it is actually better than that of an M3 or M6. The handling and operation of the Mamiya is very natural and smooth; I also don't think you'd be disappointed with its optical quality, either. The only issue would be the price: I've not seen one under US$1700 (but I haven't been looking, either).

The Rollei would be a totally different experience in so many ways. I have a 2.8D and 3.5F - I prefer the pre-F cameras because they are mechanically simpler with less to go wrong (e.g. my F has a complex meter linkage that goes into the focus knob and also has moving DOF indicators - they work, but they complicate the regular clean-lubricate-adjust process).

 

[Dan Daniel]

What about one of the 6x4.5 Fujis? Or a 6x9 Fuji?

In the Bay Area, visit Glass Key Photo and handle actual cameras.

 

[Dan Fromm]

You might be setting yourself up for another round of frustration and disappointment.

+ 1

To add to Brian's comment, Narin, what will any MF rig give you that 35 mm won't? How will shooting 120 roll film improve your photography or your life?

I can't pile on and tell you how to spend your money, I don't know enough about what you want to get for it. "Travel, documentary, street" tells me nothing.

I can tell you that the cameras I use to shoot 2x3 and 6x12 (2x3 Graphics, 2x3 and 4x5 Cambo monorails) almost certainly are not for you.

 

[John Koehrer]

Comfortable with the viewfinder on the Hasselblad? If you were, the Rollei's OK. The two tlr's
are roughly comparable in size, one's vertica, one's horizontal. The Rollei's much lighter than
Mr. Hasselblad though.
Not having much experience with the Fuji or Mamiya myself, if you can live with the bulk of the Mamiya
I don't recall seeing anything negative written about any of the lenses.

 

[Slixtiesix]

How about a Fuji GA645Zi or GA645Wide? Seriously, if you did not like the Hasselblad for lack of speed, the Rollei seems the wrong choice.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

This is a no brainer. Get the Mamiya 7. Coming from a Leica, you will barely notice the difference.

 

[RattyMouse]

So I had a pretty nice Hasselblad 500c/m kit for a year but I ultimately ended up selling it because it was way too big, heavy, and slow for my tastes. Coming from 35mm, I'm used to shooting with lighter, faster, and more compact rangefinders (Leica M6, Leica M3, and a Hasselblad Xpan II). I know that shooting MF is a little slower than 35mm (in terms of setup, focus, and glass), but I felt with the 500c/m, it was too much in the wrong direction for me, especially since most of my shooting is travel/documentary/street. The Hassy also took up way too much space in my travel bags & probably gave me some irreversible back problems lugging it around.

I still want to give MF a second chance and so knowing what I know now, I'm hoping I can find a camera that'll match my tastes and compliment my kit. I've narrowed it down to:

- Mamiya 7
- Fuji GF670
- Rolleiflex 2.8F

Of the three, the Rollei definitely stands out because it's not a rangefinder like the other two and the rest of my kit, but there's something about the Rollei that I've always wanted to try out. Plus, it's super compact and the f/2.8 lens seems to be pretty fast compared with the other two.

Between the Mamiya 7 and GF670, the GF670 looks great because it folds in (but I'm a little weary of reliability with the bellows) and the single-lens system doesn't bother me too much because I've never really been a fan of switching up lenses.

Anybody have feedback on which of the three I should look into getting? If it's not one of these three, I'm hoping to get something a little compact, preferably with a built-in light meter, and light weight. I'd like to keep it < $1500 USD.

I have a GF670 camera and find it absolutely FANTASTIC! The bellows is VERY strong and is not a worry unless you abuse it. The lens is tack sharp. The camera is a joy to travel with and mine has been all over the world. I love it so much I pair it with a GF670W for times when a wider angle is needed.

HIGHEST recommendation!

 

[TareqPhoto]

Tough Decision!

I went first with Hasselblad 501CM and Mamiya RZ67II, then i added Holgas pinholes then Mamiya 7II and then GSW690III, later added RB67 Pro as well, out of all these, the best two i like to use are Mamiya 7 which is not working at all and FUJI GSW6x9, rangefinder are way lightweight and very easy to focus, RZ then is third, but because my Mamiya 7 isn't working so i put RZ and GSW as my top used cameras.

I don't like the hasselblad focusing system at all, i tried different focusing screen, Matte, Matte Acute and whatever and i never feel comfortable to focus with it, but handling the Hasselblad for me is out of world, as handling it is my first choice, but i don't care about handling if focusing and shooting aren't comfortable as well for me, so that i prefer RZ over it despite that RZ/RB are like tanks so heavy, but looking at RZ/RB WLF is like watching a TV in 3D.

 

[Huss]

Amongst other cameras I use Rolleiflexes. They may be relatively compact, but they are heavy and not fast to use. Results are A+
The only MF cameras that are similar in speed to use (and not too big) compared to 35mm cameras are the RFs - whether it is a Mamiya 6/7/7ii, a Fuji GF670, or one of those AF GZ (?) fuji g645 models.

 

[mooseontheloose]

I went from TLR to Bronica SQAi to Mamiya 6 back to TLR. After feeling limited from my TLRs, I went to the Bronica because I liked having extra backs and lenses. But over time the weight became an issue until I was just basically travelling with one back and 2 lenses. Then I went to the Mamiya 6 because it's a great system and only has 3 lenses (I have 2) and the quality is fantastic. But...I've never really shot rangefinders before and I'm still coming to grips with some of the limitations of shooting that way. Although the Mamiya 6 and 2 lenses are lighter than my Bronica set-up, it was still too heavy sometimes (I had a really bad episode last year of a herniated disc). So I went back to the TLR (I prefer Minolta Autocords to Rolleiflexes - I find the quality to be similar, and the handling much better) which is the lightest medium format I have (other than my Holga).

Maybe the question you want to answer is, what do you want out of your medium format gear? Is it to complement your 35mm set up? If so, then the Mamiya 7 (or 6) would be a good choice for you. But...there are a lot of lenses in this system, so depending on how many you get you may not save that much on weight after all. If you want to stay lightweight with a 6x7 neg then go for the Fuji. Any TLR would be good if you want to be unobtrusive (people don't realise they are being photographed) but also because it attracts attention (people are curious about these cameras). I know those are 2 contradictory terms, but there you go. The TLR will probably slow you down though, needing to use a handheld meter. In all honesty, I think all of these systems are good, and if they don't work out for you, you'll be able to recoup your costs as their values remain pretty steady.

Oh, and welcome to APUG!

 

[Alan Gales]

Hmmmmm. I always thought my Hasselblad 500/cm was little and light. Of course I used to shoot an RZ67 and now an 8x10.

Coming from Leica's you will probably prefer a rangefinder over the Rolleiflex. You will have to get used to a reverse image unless you buy a prism finder. Also I hear that Rolleiflex screens are on the dark side unless you upgrade. I own a Mamiya C220f. I tried a C220 but found the screen a bit dim indoors so I upgraded to the newer f version with the brighter screen. Of course the Mamiya TLR's weigh as much as my old Hasselblad. You might try a Rolleicord, Minolta Autocord or Yashicamat first before investing in an expensive Rolleiflex.

 

[Luminousoctaves]

@narin: I can definitely identify with you being used to shooting lighter and smaller rangefinder like Leicas and Xpan. To me it's essential that a camera is fairly easy to carry around for longer periods of time. I have done projects with following medium format cameras:

- Mamiya 7II + 80mm and 65mm
- Rolleiflex 3.5F type 4
- Yashica Mat 124-G
- Hasselblad 500 c/m + various lenses
- Plaubel Makina 67
- Zeiss Super Ikonta 533/16 BX

My take is this:
1. The Hasselblad system is heavy, and mostly suitable for studio work and situations where you can plan everything before hand.
2. The Mamiya 7II is flexible and lighter the the Hassy, but I found it too bulky and heavy to carry around in the end. Feels like a Canon 1DX with lens = too big for me. Great image quality though.
3. The Rolleiflex 3.5F and the Yashica Mat 124-G are superb cameras and very light. If you prefer TLR and can live with just one lens it's probably the best choice. Beautiful cameras! I would choose the 3.5F (lighter) before the 2.8F.
4. The Plaubel Makina 67 is a piece of work! Easy to fold and put in a bag. Best image quality of all cameras and best rangefinder choice for projects where the camera needs to be carried around a lot.
5. Bonus: I recently bought a Zeiss Super Ikonta 533/16 BX with the f2.8 Tessar lens and I'm quite impressed. Super small!! However the viewfinder is tiny, and closest focusing distance is 1.5 meters. If you can live with this, I could recommend it. The rangefinder is really accurate if calibrated correctly.

My personal pick is the Plauble Makina. The image quality is outstanding. And folded it's smaller than the Rolleiflex.

 

[btaylor]

Personally I find my Rollei Automat with the 3.5 Schneider to be fast handling, small and light. I have a 2.8D with the Planar and it is considerably heavier. The Automat has a nifty eye level sports finder I use a lot. The Rolleicord is even lighter but the price is the shutter cocking is a seperate operation which slows me down (especially when I forget!).

 

[baachitraka]

Rolleicord Va: Screen is good balance between the brightness and the sharpness. Its light and the accessories are cheap. Its close up lens accessories are nice for tight portraits.

 

[JPD]

Rolleicord Va: Screen is good balance between the brightness and the sharpness. Its light and the accessories are cheap. Its close up lens accessories are nice for tight portraits.

I can't agree more, but can add that the model after, the Rolleicord Vb, has the bright screen with fresnel.

Rollei TLR's are easier to carry on your chest/belly than a Hasselblad (and similar) because they are always upright and ready to use. The Rolleicords are the lightest, then comes the Rolleiflex T and earlier Tessar/Xenar ones, and then the 3,5 Planar/Xenotar ones. The 2,8 models are the heaviest.

If you really want a Planar or Xenotar Rolleiflex, don't forget to look at the 3,5 models. They are a little bit sharper and contrastier than their bigger 2,8 siblings.

 

[Svenedin]

I have a Fuji GF670 and it is a great camera. I does annoy me though. It cannot be folded with a filter in place (my old Zeiss Ikontas can be folded with a filter attached) and it is rather big and heavy. The pictures are very good though. I feel my Super Ikonta IV is a more practical camera as it is lighter and much less bulky but the optics are not as good as the modern Fuji. It seems the GF670 is a backwards step in some ways particularly as I always use filters. I would not worry about the bellows, they are robust enough. I have been hiking in the Alps with both old Zeiss folders and the GF670 without any fear of damaging the bellows.

 

[RattyMouse]

I have a Fuji GF670 and it is a great camera. I does annoy me though. It cannot be folded with a filter in place (my old Zeiss Ikontas can be folded with a filter attached) and it is rather big and heavy. The pictures are very good though. I feel my Super Ikonta IV is a more practical camera as it is lighter and much less bulky but the optics are not as good as the modern Fuji. It seems the GF670 is a backwards step in some ways particularly as I always use filters. I would not worry about the bellows, they are robust enough. I have been hiking in the Alps with both old Zeiss folders and the GF670 without any fear of damaging the bellows.

GF670 heavy? Not even close. I can carry it all day long without any fatigue at all.

Do you have the hood for the GF670? You can pop that on and off pretty quickly and since it holds a filter, using that greatly reduces the time to put on and take off filters.

 

[narin]

Thanks everybody for the reply and all your thoughts!

I did some thinking the past few days based on everybody's comments and changed my mind a bit. I don't think I'm actually looking for something fast to use like my current rangefinders. I'm really looking for something to compliment my kit and something that'll help slow my photography down for the better (something my quick Leica's don't help with). I'm not really looking for a MF camera for street photos or snapshots because that's what my current setup is good for, but I want to get more involved with portrait, landscape, and architecture work that I think a MF setup may be good for.

After thinking about it a bit more, I might try out a TLR (Yashicamat 124G, Rolleiflex 3.5/2.8) since it looks like a good balance of compactness, lightweight, and won't try to cannibalize my Leica's like a Mamiya 7 would.

 

[Svenedin]

Yes I have the hood. It is quick to put the hood on but fiddly to change the filter in the hood. If you are hiking up thousands of feet it is heavy and bulky compared to my 35mm OM4-Ti and to my Zeiss folders. My Zeiss folders are 6x6 though not 6x7.