Gevaert (Agfa) "How film is made" video of 1954

[Photo Engineer]

Terminology in the film manufacturing business is very company specific. I found that out trying to make sense out of German and Japanese comments which used different words (in translation) than we did. The equipment was also company specific!

The windmill blade example posted here earlier was quite compelling to me inferring that they meant blade, but I cannot be sure. I do know that a wick tends to leave streaks in the coating whereas a blade does not. So, at the current time, I favor the translation "wieken" blades from the windmill example just based on my own coating experience and on some old textbooks from that era.

PE

 

[Marco B]

OK, based also on PE's and AgX's comments and usage of "wick", here a last attempt including an updated attached text document.

So here was my last version of the translation:

3,23 3,25 De lichtgevoelige emulsie liep uit een fles in een bakje // The light sensitive emulsion flowed from a bottle into a through
3,26 3,29 Waaruit een 'wiek' stak die de emulsie over het papier streek // to which a wide brush was attached, spreading the emulsion over the paper

Now Q.G. suggested:

3,23 3,25 De lichtgevoelige emulsie liep uit een fles in een bakje // The light sensitive emulsion ran out of a bottle into a little tray
3,26 3,29 Waaruit een 'wiek' stak die de emulsie over het papier streek // out of which a wick protruded that spread the fluid over the paper

I noticed three small points or issues:

- Q.G. correctly replaced the "emulsion", with "fluid" in the 2nd sentence. In the Dutch transcription that I first made, I had intended to literally write down each spoken word as said. But I unintendedly replaced "fluid / vloeistof" with "emulsion / emulsie" in the 2nd sentence while typing it.

- "out of which a wick protruded"
The word protruded already includes the meaning "out of", so "from which a wick protruded" might be better?

- Q.G. replaced my "through" correctly with "little tray" (maybe better "small tray"?)


"Final" translation than:

3,23 3,25 De lichtgevoelige emulsie liep uit een fles in een bakje // The light sensitive emulsion ran out of a bottle into a small tray
3,26 3,29 Waaruit een 'wiek' stak die de emulsie over het papier streek // from which a wick protruded that spread the fluid over the paper

Marco

 

[AgX]

It had been stated be Gevaert people that the "wiek" transferred the emulsion to the paper. Well, this still would not exclude the meaning of `blade´...
But I never came across that term in this meaning. Yes, a windmill wing is called "wiek", and it is straight today, though twisted. But this designation rather originates from its aerodynamic behaviour like a wing, which is the original meaning of "wiek". I assume the meaning as wick has evolved due to the feather's shaft capillarity..

The main difference between a through and a tray is the relative height of its sides.

 

[Q.G.]

It works for me.

 

[Marco B]

Yezzzz. Can't believe I just spent 3 hours on two sentences!

 

[Photo Engineer]

Yezzzz. Can't believe I just spent 3 hours on two sentences!

How long do you think it took those guys to "invent" the method of spreading the emulsion evenly without streaks? Consider yourself lucky you didn't have to do that work.



PE

 

[Q.G.]

Well, this still would not exclude the meaning of `blade´...
But I never came across that term in this meaning. Yes, a windmill wing is called "wiek", and it is straight today, though twisted. But this designation rather originates from its aerodynamic behaviour like a wing, which is the original meaning of "wiek".

Hadn't even looked at it from that angle, but yes, i agree: it would be rather strange, unusual at best, to use the word "wiek" to mean a "blade" in a way that would make sense here.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Guys, why are the windmill "blades" called "wieken" then? It may be an alternate meaning or an old meaning going back over 100 years.

PE

 

[Q.G.]

That's a difficult one...

"Wiek", as in the propellor blade, has the same meaning and origin as Dutch "vleugel" (wing), from (don't ask me how) Dutch "vlerk".
So the windmill's "wieken" are "wings".

By the way, the "wieken" of a windmill are not the 'blades', but the entire thing, blade + shaft. The better English translation would be "vane", though that too does perhaps not include the shaft.

"Wiek" as in "wick" is related to Dutch "wikkelen" (English "to wind" or "wrap"), and "weven" ("to weave").

I will have to see if i can unearth an etymological dictionary, and get the proper 'derivations'.

 

[Chazzy]

I think that Marco has the right idea about the meaning of the English words wick and brush. A wick is ordinarily a single strand of material and not very wide. A brush can be wider than a wick—although neither a wick or a brush would ordinarily be as wide as a roll of photographic paper in the process of being manufactured. Incidentally, specialized brushes, as used in alternative processes, can be made of cloth, so it is not an absolute requirement that the brush function like an ordinary paint brush.

 

[Marco B]

It had been stated be Gevaert people that the "wiek" transferred the emulsion to the paper. Well, this still would not exclude the meaning of `blade´...

I think we can safely exclude that this particular device we see in the video, has a metal "blade", or it should be fixed at the invisible side of the "wiek", where the paper is fed in, next to the "wiek". If you look carefully, you can even see the red thing "bend" irregularly across the width of the paper being coated. A sure sign it isn't a metal blade. The, what seems to be ragged, irregular edges of the "wiek" on the paper still indicate to me it might be a brush, instead of a flexible woven cloth of some kind of material soaked with emulsion from the tray.

Maybe, if I do manage to acquire a DVD from the Instituut Beeld en Geluid, we will have high enough resolution footage to determine if it is a piece of cloth or brush pressing against the paper.

But even if it is a brush, they may still have called it a "wiek" at Gevaert... Just leaves the English translation floating... or not, if we take the more stringent route Q.G. suggests for the translation and that I adopted in the last version.

 

[Marco B]

Renewed link to Gevaert (AGFA) history video

Hi all, since the Lounge thread I linked to in the first post of this thread is dead, I hereby include the link to the Gevaert video, as it is still available:

Zestig jaar Gevaert: van huisnijverheid tot wereldindustrie:
http://www.geschiedenis24.nl/speler.program.7082986.html

 

[SkipA]

I'd love to see it. The video won't play for me. It says "Laden..." in the lower left hand corner and clicking the arrow button to make it play doesn't do anything. Maybe the server is down.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I have the same problem, but I see a lot of internet and disk activity. I let it go for about 10 minutes or more.

PE

 

[Marco B]

I'd love to see it. The video won't play for me. It says "Laden..." in the lower left hand corner and clicking the arrow button to make it play doesn't do anything. Maybe the server is down.

I have the same problem, but I see a lot of internet and disk activity. I let it go for about 10 minutes or more.

PE

Here is another link to the Gevaert video, where you can watch it in Windows Media, or Real player format:
(Please note this link will resize your browser window to a smaller format to view the video, this is normal, enlarge with the maximize button if needed)
Dead Link Removed

However, there may be to many APUGers trying to access it at the same time Try it a little later. Both links are to some Dutch TV channel servers. They shouldn't be to bad, but they aren't YouTube either...

PE:
You already watched this one, see your own previous posts in this re-activated old thread...

Marco

 

[Photo Engineer]

Marco;

Yes, I know, but I have been thinking about that "wiek" wondering what it might be. I wanted to watch it again and the link I had to it seems to be broken.

Thanks.

PE

 

[Photo Engineer]

Marco;

I looked at the film again and have the feeling as I have thought before, that this is a combination of a wick to spread a thick layer of emulsion on the film (or paper) and then an attached blade or "wing" on the "wick" to level the coated emulsion and to even it out. In other words, a doctor blade.

This is due to the complexity of the coating head shown at the beginning of the film when they are hand coating some paper. It looks overly complex for a single application device and therefore I postulate two devices being used as I describe above.

PE