Getting started in LF

[wogster]

This has probably been asked before, but....

I am thinking about looking into 4x5. However I have a few questions as what I know about it is somewhere between zero and zilch.....

1) What is a good (read cheap but usable) camera to start with, used is fine, but should be available in Canada. I know about fleabay, but I don't know enough to evaluate a used 4x5 camera.

2) What is a good film to start with (B&W preferred)

3) Where near Toronto, can I learn about these cameras, perhaps try one before needing to invest in anything other then a little film and some chemicals?

 

[Shmoo]

You might check out this website for a good start on LF...and, of course, this website.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/

 

[John Kasaian]

First, pick up a copy of Using The View Camera by Steve Simmons. Don't spend any money on gear until you've read this. Peruse the archives here and also on the LF Homepage (Shmoo's link) for a wealth of good info as well as checking out www.graflex.org.

 

[Nick Zentena]

If you don't want to risk Ebay www.mpex.com will ship to Canada. He is honest . Just explain what you're looking at and he'll help. Badger will also ship without much trouble. Mostly new stock. www.keh.com has plenty of lenses.

I'm not sure if anybody in Toronto stocks a lot of cameras. Harry's might have some but I haven't checked in years.

 

[cameragearforyou]

LF help in GTA

try www.bigcameraworkshops.com as he has learning sessions where he supplies the LF gear and you can try out whatever format you want.

Are you planning to shoot int he field? I would pickup a Gowland Pocket 4x5 camera to start out. they are small and often sell for less than $400cdn
Peter Gowland is also a great guy to talk to and will always help with parts or questions.

Anyways, welcome to LF!!

 

[eric johnson]

There is a very good article called

Getting Started in Large Format in the Free Articles section of the View Camera web site

www.viewcamera.com

Good Luck

Eric

 

[Garry Madlung]

There are some used camera fairs occasionally in the Toronto area. The next one is coming up in a few weeks. This is a good opportunity to have a look at a variety of equipment even if you don't buy. Some of the shows have more L.F. gear than others, but you can usually see something there.

Here's the info:

Camerama 2009
Thornhill Community Centre
7755 Bayview Ave.
Thornhill, Ontario
Sunday, January 25th, 2009
10:00am - 3:00pm

I'm not a dealer and would suggest that you shop around. Admission to the fairs is usually $7.

This forum is probably the best place to buy gear though and to get advice.

Good films to start with are Ilford FP4, HP5, or Kodak T-Max. It's a good idea to use one line for a while and not jump around too much with a variety of films if you're new to developing.

You should be able to find something decent for under $500.

Henry's doesn't deal in L.F., but you can get Ilford and Kodak chemistry there. Downtown Camera usually has a good stock of film supplies since they deal a lot with Ryerson photography students.

 

[wogster]

There are some used camera fairs occasionally in the Toronto area. The next one is coming up in a few weeks. This is a good opportunity to have a look at a variety of equipment even if you don't buy. Some of the shows have more L.F. gear than others, but you can usually see something there.

Here's the info:

Camerama 2009
Thornhill Community Centre
7755 Bayview Ave.
Thornhill, Ontario
Sunday, January 25th, 2009
10:00am - 3:00pm

I'm not a dealer and would suggest that you shop around. Admission to the fairs is usually $7.

This forum is probably the best place to buy gear though and to get advice.

Good films to start with are Ilford FP4, HP5, or Kodak T-Max. It's a good idea to use one line for a while and not jump around too much with a variety of films if you're new to developing.

You should be able to find something decent for under $500.

Henry's doesn't deal in L.F., but you can get Ilford and Kodak chemistry there. Downtown Camera usually has a good stock of film supplies since they deal a lot with Ryerson photography students.

I'll have to see about borrowing a car and going to that show, as my car died about 18 months ago and I haven't gotten around to replacing it. I know that will shock a lot of people, but when you live in the big city with easy access to 24 hour a day transit, you don't really need a car. Of course for trips north of Steeles, where the car is king, and transit becomes a we-run-a-bus-whenever-we-feel-like-it, it gets a little tricky.....

Henry's seems to be turning into another digital only place, I was in their main store on boxing day, and looked at the darkroom section, pathetic doesn't begin to describe it, it's a tiny corner with some dusty boxes of paper and a few packages of chemistries, certainly not the huge section it used to be..... I don't get the camera stores that are going digital, they seem to be selling the same crap as the electronics shops, but for more money. Talk about a plan doomed to failure..... I went into their clearance store, and lots of old but dusty film cameras and lenses about, most without caps, like they threw the old abandoned stuff in there with a couple of grumpy old sales guys, sad really.

I'll try to check out that show, are you going, if so PM me, maybe we could meet up, be nice to talk to another film guy.

 

[2F/2F]

This has probably been asked before, but....

I am thinking about looking into 4x5. However I have a few questions as what I know about it is somewhere between zero and zilch.....

1) What is a good (read cheap but usable) camera to start with, used is fine, but should be available in Canada. I know about fleabay, but I don't know enough to evaluate a used 4x5 camera.

2) What is a good film to start with (B&W preferred)

3) Where near Toronto, can I learn about these cameras, perhaps try one before needing to invest in anything other then a little film and some chemicals?

Hi,

LF is well worth it if you choose suitable subject matter and are willing to put in the time and expense. In other words, don't go into it with unrealistic expectations, and you will be fine. Don't expect it to be like shooting 35. You are going to have to pick and choose your shots and your subject matter, and have the patience and drive to put a lot of effort into a single shot.

1. You need to determine if you need movements, or if you simply want a large neg. If you only want a large neg., go for a Speed or Crown, or something similar. If you want movements, there are a ridiculous number of options. If you are pretty sure you will stick with it and will want to some day expand your initial kit, I would get a low-end camera that is relatively modern, and which is backed up by a decent system. Toyo, Cambo, Omega, for instance...and even Sinar Fs are cheap nowadays. Under $500 with a lens quite frequently. My first was a Graphic View II. I loved it, but a lovely Sinar F1 kit fell my way in a trade. I prefer the whole Sinar system, so sold the GVII. If you only want a camera that takes pix, and won't need the benefits of a large system, I would highly recommend a GV. I like them a lot better than the old metal Calumets, Omegas, B&Js, etc.

2. I would start with the same film and developer that you like for your 35. Just shoot one shot for every nine you would take on 35mm, and your cost for film is the same.

3. I would take the LF class at a community college in Toronto. It's a big city. There must be several options. Whether you take a class or not, I would read a book or two. I like "The Camera", and "Photography" by London and Upton (or London and London, depending on the edition). There is another one that is all about the view camera that I got from the library one time, but I forgot what it is called. Whatever it is, it should be at your library or one nearby. I thought that it was a great book, but information overload for someone just starting out. That's why I like the two books I mentioned. Each has just a single, easily digestible chapter on the view camera.

 

[wogster]

First, pick up a copy of Using The View Camera by Steve Simmons. Don't spend any money on gear until you've read this. Peruse the archives here and also on the LF Homepage (Shmoo's link) for a wealth of good info as well as checking out www.graflex.org.

I just ordered a copy of this book through the library, so when it arrives at my branch, I will give it a read.....

 

[aluk]

Henry's seems to be turning into another digital only place, I was in their main store on boxing day, and looked at the darkroom section, pathetic doesn't begin to describe it, it's a tiny corner with some dusty boxes of paper and a few packages of chemistries, certainly not the huge section it used to be.....

However, I was quite pleasantly surprised with them a few weeks ago: after running around downtown (read: 8 Elm & Downtown Camera) looking for some last-minute Rodinal on December 24 to no avail, I thought I would give Henry's a try as a last resort. To my surprise, they had it in stock at many of their branches! I asked the clerk how often it comes in, and he said something to the effect of "all the time"...of course, how much do cashiers really know....made my day to find some, though.

 

[dng88]

I started with 4x5 a couple of years and found it quite hard. I thought 8x10 is even harder. But other than being very heavy and only can photo very close by, I found that 8x10 is much easier to learn because you can see. 4x5 use loupe a lot. Well, I could not tell my 4-years-ago-me to start with 8x10 but my experience strangely told me that me-4-years-ago shall use 8x10 and it is the way to go/learn. Not helping you I am afraid of these statement but somehow it is just my experience in the last few month. Sorry of interruption. BTW, I use tachihara 4x5 and it is not that expensive.

 

[archphoto]

You haven't told us what you want to photograph.......
Flatbeds are great for landscape, monorails are great in the studio aswell.

Dng88: 8x10 is more expensive tot buy and use, but I love those BIG neg's and slides !

Welcome to the club !

Peter

GAS: Sinar P2 8x10 and 4x5 inch

 

[Mark_S]

Wogster

I was a perfectly happy 35mm shooter until I was loaned a 4x5 camera - An older speed graphic. I shot a few images and made contact prints, I upgraded my darkroom to be able to enlarge the 4x5 negatives, and to make developing sheet film easier. I was totally hooked. The speed graphic was reclaimed, and I had to replace it (which I did with a more versatile field camera), and have never looked back. If you are wanting to spend a little more, buy a good lens - unlike 35mm, most any lens will work with any camera so if you get a good lens to go with an older camera, and later upgrade the camera, you don't lose your investment in glass.

My advice: Pick up one of the old graphlex cameras- a speed graphic or a crown graphic, and start shooting. You can develop the film in trays in a dark room, or at night, so the total investment to get started should be minimal. As you shoot you will figure out what sorts of things you are going to want to do and where to go from that starting point. You will be able to sell the speed graphic for about the same as what it cost you, so the actual cost is virtually nothing.

As a start, you can use any film that you are comfortable with in B&W. Personally I use almost exclusively HP5 now. With LF one thing that you do not need to worry about is grain, so some films that don't work well in 35mm will work fine for LF. When working in 35mm I prefer films with finer grain.

The elevator workshops are in Toronto, and sometimes offer LF oriented stuff, I have never attended one of their workshops, but would like to one day....

 

[wogster]

You haven't told us what you want to photograph.......
Flatbeds are great for landscape, monorails are great in the studio aswell.

Dng88: 8x10 is more expensive tot buy and use, but I love those BIG neg's and slides !

Welcome to the club !

Peter

GAS: Sinar P2 8x10 and 4x5 inch

I intentionally stayed away from subject matter, I do mostly nature photography, which means that camera gear must fit into a backpack or often a bicycle pannier, this means that the total load should be under 10lbs, as often there is other stuff to carry. 10lbs isn't unreasonable, as often the 35mm kit with it's collection of lenses (I have a Konica F/3.5 200mm lens, that often feels like 10lbs on it's own). I have a big Manfrotto tripod, that I often throw over a shoulder for field work. A good 90% of my photos are B&W.

I think the idea is to be different, when you see 15 people all machine gunning the same scene with their fancy digital cameras with the super sized zooms, I think the idea of taking an hour to set up the camera, compose and get your one shot and know it's good, appeals to me. Especially when I know that those 15 guys, they are always young, male and speak the same (not English) language are likely to, out of the 47,000 shots they took, to get maybe one decent image.

I don't mind doing a days shooting and coming home with 10 good shots, I even do that with 35mm and digital. Heck I am going back to film for a lot of my shooting because I am tired of spending most of my photographic time in front of the computer. I want to get back to the idea of spending time in the dark and getting a few nice prints, which can be mounted and displayed.

 

[Dinesh]

...... Especially when I know that those 15 guys, they are always young, male and speak the same (not English) language are likely to,.....

What exactly are you implying?