getting into LF

[Magnus]

Hello all,

I want to get into Large format, ... "very large format" possibly the largest format in order to contact print the negatives. I have read through multiple threads but am slightly confused my the unstructured manner of information.

My question is, is there a book, or a structured web-site which will explain to me in detail about the neseccities/necessities (however one spells that word) towrds the processes and needed equipment.

I would be most gratefull for your replies,

Regards all,

Magnus

 

[vet173]

If you are just getting into it. I recomend 4x5 to start. Learn the dicipline then move up in format. You don't want to learn at $30.00-60.00 a pop. I understand the appeal. I shoot 4x5 and 8x10, with a lust for 7x17. By the way your on one of the best structured sites on the web to gain what your looking for. Look in the articles section.
John

 

[Dorothy Blum Cooper]

I can't help but think of Clyde Butcher when you say the largest format. I know that is of no real help, but I wasn't sure if you had seen his work or been to his site. Maybe his newsletter or something on his site may be of help.

 

[waynecrider]

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/

The large format forum above has a page of different article headings for you to explore.

Btw, and I agree with the above, starting real large might not be prudent. It's a very expensive start and you need real experience first, let alone to find out if the larger format agrees with your shooting style.

 

[df cardwell]

Find an inexpensive 4x5, 100 sheets of film, 100 sheets of 8x10 paper, and set the date for a show.

Have a show of 12 prints, and then do it again. In 6 months you'll be crazy, and ready for ULF !

.

.

 

[Magnus]

Actually, I dreaded asking if maybe I start with "small" LF if this would be a wise thing to do .... In the back of my head it seems like, but then the really large stuff appeals ...

So ok. 5x4 seems like a good starting point.... I have looked at the threads, as mentioned in my first post but how do I get insight into the equipment for a start, what lenses, what angles etc.... I do need astarting point. I will follow up all your suggestions tonight, by browsing thorough the web, looking at book reviews etc. But I am not much of a theorist, I want to get my hands on the stuff and do it ... if you know what I mean

 

[Nick Zentena]

You need at least

1) Camera
2) Lens and some way to hold it to the camera. Usually a lensboard.
3) Some way to hold the film. Usually a film holder.

After that it's all normal photo stuff. Tripod,meter and cable release. Dark cloth wouldn't hurt.

A 150mm lens is similar in view to a 43mm lens on a 35mm camera.

 

[df cardwell]

Contact prints on 4x5 need almost a graphic clarity

Perhaps a 180 - 210 will be a good place to begin. A Symar / Sironar or Geronar are fine. If you think a wide lens would be good, use a 120, perhaps an Angulon.

A Crown Graphic is rugged, simple, and inexpensive. A Toyo field camera would be good as well.

Don't trouble yourself fretting over swings and tilts. Make it simple.

Use whatever film you like to use in other formats. The important part of the process is to repeat the image making cycle over and over until it is intuitive.

You will know then, what is important to you in ULF.

.

 

[Allen Friday]

Check out "Using the View Camera" by Steve Simmons. You can find it on all the major book selling sites, and B&N and Boarders often have copies.

The book covers the basics of getting into LF in a no nonsense way. It covers things like lens selection, building a lens collection, how to load film, the different formats, how to develop film, etc.

By the way, if you really want to do contact prints, I suggest skipping the 4x5 and going directly to 5x7 or 8x10. There have been several threads regarding camera size selection on APUG. Personally, I find 4x5 small for contact prints, although it is cheaper to use than 5x7 or 8x10. But, figure in your transaction cost of buying the small camera, using it for a while and then moving up. You may find it cheaper in the long run to go ahead and get a 5x7 or 8x10. A standard lens for the 8x10 can be used as a short focal length lens on 11x14 or 7x17. A standard lens for 4x5 (150mm) will probably not cover the ULF, and would be extremely short.

Personally, I shoot ULF, lately concentrating on 12x20 and 16x20. But I keep using my 5x7 regularly, and 8x10 occasionally. I loaned my 4x5 to a student friend of mine for school, I was using it so little.

Allen

 

[roteague]

I would order Steve Simmons excellent book "Using the View Camera".

 

[John Kasaian]

Lots of good advice, I'll second Steve Simmons "Using The View Camera" as the best primer around for large format. Of course you cen spend years reading about large format which will get you nowhere slowly, so I'd suggest grabbing a cheap entry level camera, a few holders, a good lens circa 1950-60's and start shooting. When your comfortable loading holders, understanding how to control perspective, and the little quirks inherent in completely manual cameras you'll be able to confidently handle any size format you want.

To be a rebel, I'd suggest starting with 5x7 or even 8x10 so you can make larger contacts. With a ULF you'll be contact printing anyway so those are the skills you'll want to work on.

Welcome to LF!

 

[rbarker]

If your objective is making contact prints, either traditional silver or alternative processes, you may be happier with something larger than 4x5, as John suggests. Personally, I'd suggest an 8x10 with either a 5x7 or 4x5 reducing back. That way, you can start with the more economical size film for learning basic procedures, and immediately move up to 8x10. From there, moving to ULF sizes will be easier.

Lens choice will be affected, as you'll want to choose lenses that have enough coverage (image circle) to cover at least 8x10, with some excess to allow movements. There are lens comparison charts on the http://www.largeformatphotography.info/ site that will help in this regard, as will the articles on older lenses.

 

[carsten]

If you are attracted to very large format, well, I think you should start from it.
Do not loose energy and enthusiasm starting with something that is not exactly what you are looking for. Dare! Go for large!

 

[argus]

I'd suggest to start with 5x7 if you really want to get into contact printing. 4x5" is too small in my opinion. You can skip the cost of an enlarger that way.

Optionally, get a camera that comes with a 4x5 reducing back and use it to get a hang on the camera movements, focussing and developing. 4x5 costs me appr. 60% of 5x7.

G

 

[Troy Ammons]

If you really want to learn how LF movements, the works, the whole shebang, get a rail camera and 1 lens to start. A 135mm or a 150mm sharp modern MC lens. If you decide to stick with it add a Nikon 90mm and a 240 or 300mm lens of some sort.

If you just want to go out and shoot, want a smaller package and dont care about back movements, get an older alum super graphic. Its a folding camera.

If you can handle 12# and want full movements with a folder get a Linhof tec 5.

Alternately you could also get a Shen hao or something like that, but i like the super graphic better as it is metal and not wood.

What sort of contact prints do you want to make ??

Actually, I dreaded asking if maybe I start with "small" LF if this would be a wise thing to do .... In the back of my head it seems like, but then the really large stuff appeals ...

So ok. 5x4 seems like a good starting point.... I have looked at the threads, as mentioned in my first post but how do I get insight into the equipment for a start, what lenses, what angles etc.... I do need astarting point. I will follow up all your suggestions tonight, by browsing thorough the web, looking at book reviews etc. But I am not much of a theorist, I want to get my hands on the stuff and do it ... if you know what I mean

 

[MurrayMinchin]

A few positive words about the humble 4x5...

I can haul mine through the bush all day, into the mountains for the weekend, and have taken it sea kayaking for months at a time. The format may be smaller, but you gain so much in being able to carry it on your back all day, being able to access areas where the ULF folks don't tread, and photographing in wilder weather conditions.

Murray

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Here's a radical thought- go out and RENT a 4x5 outfit for a few weekends, to get a feel for the format and its requirements, if that is available to you where you live. You'll get to make some negatives, and see what they feel like. Some rental houses will offer you a partial credit from what you rent toward purchases in the shop, so you may be able to recoup some of your rental cost.

 

[Magnus]

I have thought about the weight and the transportability, but, but ! this is the part that makes photography into a hobby for me.

I started of 35mm, which I still shoot, but then bought the Hasselblad, total different story, always shot from tripod, setting up, checking the light conditions, looking for the perfect composure, the perfect frame, readjusting, deciding on depth of field etc. etc. This part is at least 60% of the fun.

Now I can say I have gained an eye for subjects, I don't shoot the "church tower" anymore (execpet if it's a nice one) and most... hmm some, of my prints come out great I have actually sold a few and they currently are exhibited in the local Pizza parlor scene But this is not it, I live in the middle of the bavarian alps, there are so many good shots to be made and I reckno with LF I can get the best of bothe worlds, having the fun taking the picture (eventually) and subsequently spending time in my darkroom getting the image toned to my liking. Washing the drying, I love it all ...

And lastly, I have gotten into toning and currently am looking into ageing/toning.

What a wonderfull and diverse hobby this "picture" thing can be ....

... but expensive ....



Magnus

 

[Troy Ammons]

this looks like a nice one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Graflex-Super-G...583734964QQcategoryZ15247QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[BradS]

Magnus,
Your intent is admirable. The experience you have gained with the Hassy will serve you well. When I was starting out in 4x5, I boldly bought a use Crown Graphic and was fortunate enough to get a 30 minute introduction to the camera and the handling of sheet film from the seller. After that, it was read, read, read and try try try...keep working with the camera and the film. Exposing film and making mistakes. Keep notes and learn from your mistakes.

If you want a copy of Steve Simmons book, drop me a PM. I'll send you mine for the cost of shipping.


Brad.

 

[k_jupiter]

I will be the radical here. Get yerself a 5x7 B&J Watson Field camera, with an additional 4x5 back.

You'll be able to run lots of cheap 4x5 stuff through, yet go to a 5x7 contactable format that will keep you amused until you want the really big stuff. The Watson is fairly light, has all movements but crappy knobs, and is a nice camera to learn on.

tim in san jose

 

[davekarp]

Consider looking for a 5x7 Deardorff with a 4x5 back. I went out shooting with a friend and one of his buddies, who had one of these Deardorffs, which he had purchased as "new" old stock. Supposedly never used. It is a very nice camera. The 5x7 is not much bigger than 4x5, and the extra back gives you the option to go to the "smaller" 4x5 format if you decide to go that way. 5x7 is a good size for contacts. If you don't have an enlarger and want to go bigger than 4x5, this is a good compromise. Where can you find one? I would start with Jim at Midwest Photo Exchange.

 

[stormbytes]

Large format photography, be it 4x5, 8x10, or 20x24 is not simply about "making photographs", but an entirely new discipline. With large format photography everything changes. The subject matter available to you, the way you plan your shoots, and the methods and sequence involved in actually taking each individual photograph. Each of these aspects involve an entire array of considerations. It's important that you understand how all this relates to your particular preferences and creative style before making what is sure to be a sizeable investment.

I wholesomely concur with my colleages on Apug who have suggested you start with 4x5. First off, it's a far more versatile format then any other, and one that would truly offer you a glimpse into the world of large format photography while still offering you a choice from practically any of the available output methods (printing). With 4x5 you would quickly learn all that's involved in shooting large format, yet still be able to choose between enlargements or contact printing, and sample from the (relative abundance of) 4x5 films available, a far wider selection compared to the more limited variety of 8x10 and larger sizes.

In shooting 4x5 you would quickly learn the many pitfalls associated with 'over-gearing', and find your own personal 'middle-ground'. Even if you choose to move on to a larger format, your experience with 4x5 would only serve to guide you in selecting an appropriate camera, lens and accessories, finding that which is best for you, and not having to rely on the numerous, and often conflicting preferences of other large format photographers.

As for equipment - I would go along with the suggestion of purchasing a well-preserved Crown/Speed Graphic "press camera". These are often sold with lenses and are routinely available both on eBay and from local resellers. Start off with about 6-10 film holders, a box of film, paper, and you're basically done. This method is relatively inexpensive, effective, and offers the opportunity to sample the world of large format photography from a minimalist perspective.

Best of luck!

 

[Magnus]

How is this for a start


Linhof Technika IV Technical A optical B

3 Lenses:

- Super-Angulon 1:8/65
- Tele-Dynar 1:6,3/255
- Apo-Lantar 1:4,5/150

8x Linhof Film Holders

I have reserved it, will make a descision on Monday, just want to pass it through the forum here ....

I have held it and it feels great, looks great, some schratches and marks on the Linhof but nothing that would effect the pictures.
The lenses I checked with a torch and magnifying glas, the shutters all seem to be in good working order. Looks like a sturdy system to me, what do you think ?