Getting into 8x10; a few questions...

[Foto Ludens]

Alright, so I'm about to take the dive into large format, and I have a few questions for you.

First of all, my barrel process lens arrived today. It's a 6 1/2" NuArc (JML) f/8, mounted on a 4x4 lens board. I measured the coverage, and if I did it right, it covers a 14" circle. More than enough for 8x10 with movements, right?

Second, with a 8x10 camera, I would probably use short bellows for this lens, right? Should I go with bag bellows (I would make them myself), or should I go with normal bellows (I would by them busted and patch them up).

Thirdly, has anyone used non-glare framing glass as a focus screen? I think I'll end up with a Satin Snow gg, but I understand that they have a long wait, and if I don't happen to get a back with glass in it, I'm looking for alternatives. Grinding my own is not really an option, unless there's a sure way to avoid silicosis while grinding glass evenly in an messy environment. Plus, I used to work in a frame shop, and I might get a high quality frosted 8x10 for less than 10 bucks.

Lastly, has anyone thought about building a focusing back out of a glass plate holder? I thought that if the T distances are the same between a glass plate holder and a sheet holder, I could cut out the dividing section in the plate holder, insert a gg with some springs, and have a focusing back that would come out when the film holders come in. I'm aware that plate holders are overall thicker than sheet holders, but the back I would build would have springs in it to push both types of holders into place securely.

BTW, I'm probably going to build my own camera, and have most of it figured out except the back. Cost-effectiveness is a big deal here, and all 8x10 backs I've seen on ebay have gone for more than I'm willing to spend (about $50). Of the top of my head, I can get all the materials for the camera for less than $30. I would only need bellows and a back (and eventually a tripod, I doubt that my cheapo could hold an 8x10, but I'm dreaming that it can).

Anyway, if you've read the whole post, thank you. And thanks in advance for all the help.

André

 

[User Removed]

Good to see more people going to 8x10 large format.


That is quite a wide angle for an 8x10 camera, are you sure it will cover it? I am not familar with that lens. You will need smaller bellows or bag bellows most likely.

Any "high quality frosted glass" from a framing store or even a glass store...does not make good ground glass. It will probably be sand blasted or acid etched...and will not be that good. Just purchase a Satin and wait it out. Its well worth the wait.

I dont really understand about the film back thing you are talking about. The ground glass is removed when the film holder is removed? What?

Maybe check out the back design on a Bender camera. They are simple, easy to make, could be replicated easy, and could be done for cheep.

 

[Donald Miller]

I am not sure about that lens...it seems awfully wide for a 8X10...how did you measure coverage. For infinity, it should be held 6 1/2 inches from the nodal point of the lens to the focus surface. The projected circle would be the dimensions that are covered. I would almost bet that your lens won't cover 14 inches at infinity. 8X10 requires a minimum of 300 mm to cover the format.

I have an 8 1/4 dagor that I use on my Deardorff...I use regular bellows but there isn't much movement with either the lens or the bellows.

I personally would look to picking up a cheap Korona or Kodak camera and save myself a lot of headaches.

Good luck in your efforts.

 

[Foto Ludens]

Thanks for the reply,

Thankfully, I think I'm going to get a complete camera from a fellow APUGer for a very good price. That should save me the trouble of making a focusing back out of a film holder... Like you said, "what???"...

Anyway, the lens seems to cover a 14" circle (5" out from the 4x4 lens board, from a weird measuremnt I took using a USPS box as a "camera"), which goes along with what the seller said. It supposedly came out of a process camera that handled 16x20 film (probably at 1:1), so 8x10 at infinity should make sense, right?

Anyway, the camera I'll hopefully get will come with a "normal" process lens, so if the lens I have does not work, I'll be ok.

Thanks for the help,

André

 

[John Kasaian]

Andre,

Heres how I measure the image circle on barrel lenses. Find a white (or light colored) interior wall opposite a window. With the room as dark as you can make it with window blinds open, hold your lens (in your case approx 6-1/2") from the wall and aim it out the window and see how big the projected image on the wall will be. Try different f stops if you wish. That will be the image you'll see 'other side around' on the ground glass. You can focus it on an 8x10 sheet of white paper taped to the wall and that will give you a good idea of the coverage on an 8x10 sheet of film.

I don't know if your 6-1/2" process lens will cover 8x10 or not.

By all means go for a 'put together' camera if you find an affordable one and save yourself the headache---unless you really want to build a camera---in which case you'll be spending a lot of time building, not photographing. The choice is yours. A sturdy tripod is a neccesity but you can find them cheap enough used (but the cheap ones will be very heavy---most likely not very mobile!) If you've got a hankerin' to do wood working, check out Ries and Berlebach and try making a copy. Or adapt a surveyor's tripod.

Just for fun, you might want to make an 8x10 pinhole camera while your waiting for your kit to take shape. Falling in love with an 8x10 negative (any 8x10 negative) really fans the flames of LF lust!

I built my first 8x10 kit 'on the cheap.' It can be done. Good luck!

 

[Dave Wooten]

if you get your back or find one cheap you can mount it on a 6.5 to 7" box and put your lens on front and shoot some infinity landscapes....

 

[Foto Ludens]

Thanks for all the replies, everyone.

It looks like I'm going to get an 8x10 complete, with a 305 Nikkor and at least a holder. That should get me shooting pretty quick. It will also let me check the coverage of this NuArc.

BTW, this is the lens:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7553053502&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1

I bought it because I was going for a 5x7, but when I measured the coverage, it screamed 8x10. And now that I'm getting another lens anyway, there's no worries here. The front and rear elements are HUGE in the NuArc, getting close to 4" in diameter. Anyway, I'll know more about it by this weekend

As for woodworking, I'll have the opportunity to do so if I feel the need for more movements in the camera I got, but I think I'll be fine for a while.

 

[photomc]

Good for you Andre...are you planning to do contact silver prints or one of the alt. process? Looking forward to whatever you decide to do, you are going to have a blast....enjoy.

 

[juan]

The Wollensak 159mm EWA is very close to 6 1/2" (which is 162mm), so it's entirely possible your lens will cover 8x10. With the Wollensak, I use my regular bellows - I don't get a lot of movement, but I don't find that I need much.

I'd recommend using the 305mm for a good while to get used to the camera and the format. After several months, you should have an idea as to whether you want longer or shorter lenses for they type of shooting you do.

Welcome to the format.
juan

 

[Nick Zentena]

The JML 209mm [8 1/4"?] is pretty common. Covers 8x10 with ease. But I don't remember if it's supposed to cover 11x14. So I'd be suprised if the 150mm covered 11x14. Doing some back of the envelope math 11x14 from the 150 would mean 110+ degrees of coverage. Maybe it lights a circle that big but the image?

 

[Foto Ludens]

Mike, I'm planning to do contact silver prints, (namely on Forté/JandC/Freestyle Polywarmtone). I admire the alternative processes, but I'm more than happy with silver.

Also, I'm probably going to shoot the Arista AHPS ortho film at first, as it will allow for long exposures and development by inspection. For the type of work I have in mind, an ortho film should be pretty good. But the fact that it's cheap, and that I can develop with a safe light on are good too.

I'll keep you guys posted on the lens... I'm planning to slap it on the camera as soon as I can, just to check the coverage.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

If you want to save some money on film holders (and weight while you're at it), go for the older wooden holders you can find on Eb*y. They are common, and can be found in good shape for $10-15 each if you shop carefully and don't rush. Most of my film holders are wood ones, and they hold up just fine, with no light leaks and no chips or dust. Plus, if they go bad, they're inexpensive to replace and (relatively) easy to repair.

 

[Mongo]

Andre-

Congratulations on your decision to move to 8x10. It's a whole other world, even from 4x5. I enjoy both, but 8x10 gives me a satisfaction that I just can't get with any other camera.

Be happy that the seller didn't use "JML" in the auction name for that lens, or you'd have had some competition for it. I've got a number of JML process lenses that I use for 8x10, and I find them to be great lenses that generally sell for a lot less than they should. (Shhhhh!) The 8.25" f/8 JML lens is a personal favorite...plenty of movement capability on 8x10 and an image so sharp it feels like you could cut yourself on it. I've been considering picking up a second one just to have it around...I hate the thought of being without that lens and the prices have stayed pretty low so far. I paid $10 for my first one, and haven't seen one get truly expensive yet. (The JML lenses do tend to be massive, which is probably why most people avoid them. That, and they're expensive beasts to put into shutters.)

The only real issue with your JML lens will likely be whether or not you'll be able to use movements with the camera and the JML lens. It's a very short lens, and a lot of 8x10 cameras are around 6-7 inches from the lensboard to the GG when they're folded up for transport. If yours is like that, you might find that you'll need to either make or buy a bag bellows for it (assuming that the bellows that are on the camera can be removed) or build/find a recessed lensboard. I have a 150mm process lens that covers 8x10, and on my Calumet C1 it can only be used straight-on. (Which happens to be fine, as the lens only covers 8x10 straight on at infinity.) I've considered building a recessed lensboard for it but haven't bothered to do so yet.

I'll second the recommendation to look for some older wooden film holders to start off with. They're generally easy to repair if there's a problem with them. Just be sure that the film plane is where it should be. My standard test it to load up a piece of printing paper and let the holders sit out in the sun for about 30 minutes, then flip sides and let them sit for the rest of the hour. That has always revealed any leaks to me, and those have been easy to fix using either bellows tape or wood glue and clamps. Be sure to clean the holders very thoroughly, as they've probably accumulated a lot of gunk over the years unless they've been in active use. The area at the edge under the metal strip that holds the film is one place that I usually find a lot more dirt than I'd have thought could get in there...a careful cleaning with the corner of a metal ruler generally dislodges anything that's in there. Also check the area where the dark slide enters the holder for light tightness by removing the slide and holding a flashlight on the other side of the opening from your eye; if the area isn't quite light tight you can usually get by draping your dark cloth over the end of the film holder until you can get around to repairing it. (Search the web; there's good information out there on how to fix old film holders.)

Again, best of luck to you and welcome to the world of 8x10. This was the first size where I saw negatives so beautiful that they stopped me dead in my tracks...I hate to think what a larger negative would do to me!

Be well.
Dave