Getting Fiber Based Paper Flat

BMbikerider · Nov 5, 2012

It is easy to flatten fibre prints. Let them dry and they will curl in all ways and this is normal. Put them face down on a dry towel and hold the left edge with your fingers. Use a straight edge on the back of the print and pull the print to the left under the straight edge. Most of the curl will have gone. Do it as many times as you need and the print will be almost as flat as a resin coated one. Just right for mounting.

kmallick · Nov 7, 2012

I am having great success in drying fiber papers flat using one of these plant presses.

The fiber papers go in between the blotter papers and the corrugated sheets and I leave them in the press for a week or so. After they come out of the press they are very flat, but over time they regain a slight curl length wise, but I don't have a problem mounting them.

Bill Burk · Nov 7, 2012

ParkerSmithPhoto said:
I was very surprised to find that the foam core does not ruin the coating.

This is what I was looking for!

I tried using Strathmore Tracing paper smooth surface in lieu of release paper... In contact with face of print.

The tracing paper semi-ferrotyped the gloss of the print - and I had to throw it out.

I'll try foam core.

ROL · Nov 7, 2012

ParkerSmithPhoto said:
Having recently spent several weeks working on my portfolio, and accidentally ruining a day's worth of work in the flattening process, here is what I now do: heat the dry mount press; place the print face down on a sheet of acid free foam core, with a sheet of release paper on top; heat the print for a minute or two; place print into a sandwich of release paper under a 3/4' piece of MDF to cool. This gets it 90% flat. For 100%, I leave the print in the press, turn it off and let it cool. It comes out flat as a floor.

If you heat the print with the glossy side in contact with the release paper, you will often get a dimple, or the release paper will slightly emboss the glossy finish and ruin it. I was very surprised to find that the foam core does not ruin the coating.

I know I must be missing something here. Why don't you just use clean mat board in your press, again?

Bill Burk · Nov 7, 2012

Clean mat board adheres slightly and leaves some fibers on the surface of the print.

A shiny surface will ferrotype the print partially so you can't use release paper (or tracing paper) on the face.

George Collier · Nov 9, 2012

I flatten prints in "pockets" of glassine, which is inexpensive, and recommended to me by a museum conservator. I stack up the pockets, so there are two layers between all prints except the top one, then release paper, close the press, turn on, allow to get warm to the touch on the top outside, turn it off, and come back when cool. Very flat, although, as some have said, 3 months later when I take them out to frame, depending on humidity, they can re-curl.

Jonathan R · May 15, 2013

FWIW, since this thread started I enthusiastically tried the brown tape/ glass method, and it certainly makes a very flat print. But I don't much like having to cut off the margins by which I handle the print until it is dry mounted; and I found it pretty tedious having to clean the tape remnants off the glass later. So I have gone back to drying prints face down on plastic mesh screens overnight, then leaving them in a stack under a heavy sheet of glass for a few days. I place a waste print face down on top of the topmost one, and have no sticking problems.

whitezo · May 23, 2013

Cleaning off the tape is pretty easy: just rinse the glass with warm water and leave it for a couple of minutes. It'll just come right off without any forcing.

Also, if you only stick the tape on half of e.g. a 1 cm < thick border, then there will be some left after cutting it off.

J.Marks · May 23, 2013

Drain the print or prints, dry on plastic screen. place dried print or prints on top of one another under a piece of glass and set a one gallon jug of water on glass, leave over night. They will be nice and flat, been doing it this way for years, it's easy and cheap.

Doc W · Oct 31, 2013

I am going through various methods of trying to dry fibre prints. Today, I put some prints face down on a plastic screen. I usually put them face up because I am worried that the screen will have a negative effect. When I took them off, a few tiny bits of emulsion stayed on the screen, ruining all the prints. I think it might be because I did not use a hardening fixer. Any thoughts?

jeroldharter · Nov 1, 2013

Don't do it twice. I gave up on screens because I could not predict when I would get "screen marks" or embossing on the print. It did not matter if they were emulsion up or down. I had no problems for a long time, and then problems which I could not troubleshoot. Now I hang the prints back to back from a line with no problems and better initial flatness.

Doc W · Nov 1, 2013

jeroldharter said:
Don't do it twice. I gave up on screens because I could not predict when I would get "screen marks" or embossing on the print. It did not matter if they were emulsion up or down. I had no problems for a long time, and then problems which I could not troubleshoot. Now I hang the prints back to back from a line with no problems and better initial flatness.

I have never tried this because I was worried that they would get stuck together. Does this not happen?

Bill Burk · Nov 1, 2013

I've been using screens for a while now with no issues, prints go on screen face up.

I do not squeegee. I lean the dripping print on the screen at a steep, almost straight up angle for about 10 minutes to let most of the water run off. Then I put the screen in the rack and let it dry for about a day.

I use a dry mount press to flatten the prints after they are already dry, by putting a print between two clean mat boards when the press is cool... Turning it on for a few minutes (just warm, not hot), then turning it off and leaving it for most of a day.

The prints come out "almost" flat... I have seen some flatter prints come to me in the LFF print exchange. So I know there is a better way.

sly · Nov 1, 2013

Doc W said:
I have never tried this because I was worried that they would get stuck together. Does this not happen?

Back-to-back, emulsion side out. They don't stick together. RC prints stick together and never come apart.
If I have an odd number of prints I throw one of my dud prints into the wash, to hang behind the odd one. This was how I discovered that "8x10" is not the same size to Foma, as it is to Ilford.

Doc W · Nov 1, 2013

Bill Burk said:
I've been using screens for a while now with no issues, prints go on screen face up.

I do not squeegee. I lean the dripping print on the screen at a steep, almost straight up angle for about 10 minutes to let most of the water run off. Then I put the screen in the rack and let it dry for about a day.

I use a dry mount press to flatten the prints after they are already dry, by putting a print between two clean mat boards when the press is cool... Turning it on for a few minutes (just warm, not hot), then turning it off and leaving it for most of a day.

The prints come out "almost" flat... I have seen some flatter prints come to me in the LFF print exchange. So I know there is a better way.

Thanks Bill. I hear a lot of people using "face down on screen" approach with success so I don't know what happened in my case. Do you use hardening fixer?

The prints in question were MGIV WT FB. I squeegeed the water off and lay them face down on the screen. This is the first time I have ever done that. I usually dry on screens, but not face down. They curl, of course, but I put them in a dry mount press which takes most of that out. I was just trying different methods to see if I could shorten the flattening time.

Doc W · Nov 1, 2013

sly said:
Back-to-back, emulsion side out. They don't stick together. RC prints stick together and never come apart.
If I have an odd number of prints I throw one of my dud prints into the wash, to hang behind the odd one. This was how I discovered that "8x10" is not the same size to Foma, as it is to Ilford.

Thanks. I will give it a whirl.

Bill Burk · Nov 1, 2013

Doc W said:
Thanks Bill. I hear a lot of people using "face down on screen" approach with success so I don't know what happened in my case. Do you use hardening fixer?

The prints in question were MGIV WT FB. I squeegeed the water off and lay them face down on the screen. This is the first time I have ever done that. I usually dry on screens, but not face down. They curl, of course, but I put them in a dry mount press which takes most of that out. I was just trying different methods to see if I could shorten the flattening time.

I don't add the hardener to my fixer. But the one time I did put some prints face down I saw a distinct screen pattern later when I toned them. I assume the contact with "anything" made the surface a little "harder" than the emulsion that didn't touch anything. My screens are not your typical window screen material. They are made from super lightweight mosquito net mesh leftover from a camping gear sewing project. Since I consider freedom from screen patterns one of the unique beautiful characteristics of analog photography, the result of even a hint of screen turned my stomach. So for me, face up is my strong recommendation.

joshua029 · Nov 3, 2013

I didn't read the entire thread so I'm not sure this has been suggested. But after a litho course in college, I started using gum tape to tape down my FB prints onto a piece of plywood. I usually leave enough border so that the image isn't affected and the paper dries as flat as the board I'm using. Leave until air dry.

Good quality gum tape has to be cut off though, while lower quality seems to just peel off of the border of the paper without remnants.

GRHazelton · Jan 29, 2014

Reinhold said:
It's been a long time since I used ferrotype plates, but here are some hints:
The paper should be the "F" surface (Ferrotyping), for glossy surfaces.
They've got to be sooper clean... try a no-scratch kitchen cleanser (Bon-Ami works very well)
Waxing the surface helps... try a floor or car wax, well polished.
The print should be given a final rinse in a rich, sudsy Foto-flo bath...
Don't drain the print before laying it on the plate... no "dry" areas on the print... "slop" it onto the plate.
Squeegee the print only after it's in full contact with the plate.
Let the print "pop" off, don't try to coax it off too soon.
If you like mirror smooth prints, it's hard to beat ferrotyping, even tho it's a hassle

If you prefer the air dried surface, most folks dry their prints on screens & flatten 'em later (as Dennis says).
I even have an old mangle (rotary clothes dryer) I got at a garage sale the works pretty good.
A few years ago Salthill (remember them?) sold a good print dryer that I cloned.
It works better than anyting else that I have tried in the last 60 years of makin' fotos...

Take a look...
http://www.classicbwphoto.com/Blog/A40AA6E8-A280-11DB-9B69-000A95E8D0C0.html

Have fun.

Reinhold

Sounds like what I used to do in the late '50s when shooting for the high school paper. I used a brayer, rather than a squeegee. What a drag! And even still a lot of prints curled viciously. For my own use I shot glossy paper, but air dried it.

DREW WILEY · Jan 30, 2014

... anybody else old enough to remember those early black and white TV adds for clothes-ironing machines that had two heated rollers, and mom simply had to feed the clothes thru them? Those machine worked great... for putting lots of nicely pressed wrinkles all thru the fabric as it passed thru !

Truzi · Jan 30, 2014

I remember seeing it on a show about old commercials.

appletree · Apr 2, 2014

dancqu said:
Corrugated Board is correct; just in case somebody is
interested in this superior method of achieving dry and
flat in one move. I used blotter rolls many years ago
when doing up to dozens of prints; Sorority and
Fraternity work.

Now days I use a flat version of the roll. I refer to it as
a Corrugated Board Stack dryer as blotters are not used.
Blotters are an absorbent material. Rather than that I use
separator sheets of non-woven polyester, a non-absorbent
hydorphobic material.

Corrugated Board Blotter Roll and Stack dryers were quite
popular years ago. Besides Kodak and their roll there were
Salthill, Burk & James, and others who made available the
stack type. The Luminos site had a page detailing the
method for really FLAT and, I should add, DRY.

A DIY Corrugated Stack dryer can be extremely inexpensive,
light weight, compact, and have little to great capacity. The
prints dry slowly, gently. Not for the impatient. Dan

I know this is from five years ago, but could anyone chime in on this please? A very novice photographer/printer here and have been getting into enlarging as of late. Using Ilford MGFB Warmtone paper and renting the darkroom at one of the few remaining labs in Houston. The lady that works there has given me a crash course on printing and she mentioned getting a blotter book to take my prints home with me and not have to leave them there to dry then come back for them the next day.

My question is, is this method using the corrugated board, then the non-woven polyester, a non-absorbent hydorphobic material (found at a local fabric store), then the print, then another later of the fabric, then another layer of the board? So a sandwich of sorts, similar to a blotter book but with different materials?

What about multiple prints? Would one use the board>>fabric>>print>>fabric>>print>>fabric...etc>>board OR board>>fabric>>print>>board>>fabric>>print...etc?

Thanks for any advice or help. Prints are being put wet on a glass pane, face up, then carefully squeegeed off. They would be put in this system fairly dry but still damp.

kq6up · Apr 2, 2014

appletree said:
I know this is from five years ago, but could anyone chime in on this please? A very novice photographer/printer here and have been getting into enlarging as of late. Using Ilford MGFB Warmtone paper and renting the darkroom at one of the few remaining labs in Houston. The lady that works there has given me a crash course on printing and she mentioned getting a blotter book to take my prints home with me and not have to leave them there to dry then come back for them the next day.

My question is, is this method using the corrugated board, then the non-woven polyester, a non-absorbent hydorphobic material (found at a local fabric store), then the print, then another later of the fabric, then another layer of the board? So a sandwich of sorts, similar to a blotter book but with different materials?

What about multiple prints? Would one use the board>>fabric>>print>>fabric>>print>>fabric...etc>>board OR board>>fabric>>print>>board>>fabric>>print...etc?

Thanks for any advice or help. Prints are being put wet on a glass pane, face up, then carefully squeegeed off. They would be put in this system fairly dry but still damp.

I use old Kodak blotter rolls which is a roll of what you are describing. I have had better luck with them being very wet. I do squeegee them, but I don't let them dry out side at all. The nice thing with the roll is that they can be placed opposite the way they naturally want to curl. After 24hours I take them out and put them in a large book with weight on them for about a week. They are flat as a board at that point, and stay like that.

Regards,
Chris Maness

kq6up · Apr 2, 2014

p.s. Since your system is already flat -- just leave them in until they are BONE dry. That would be probably a week depending on your local relative humidity. Squeegee, but don't let them dry or they will start to curl and cause warpage. You can stack as many as you want like you suggest. I would add weight to the sack as well.

Regards,
Chris Maness

appletree · Apr 2, 2014

Thanks for the information and details Chris, much appreciated.

In your opinion should I attempt to make something similar to the Kodak blotter roll, with the corrugated board/fabric (a flat version, not rolled like Kodak's) or will a blotter book be sufficient. I am not too concerned with time to wait, just want it done properly and safely for the prints.

Getting Fiber Based Paper Flat

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