Getting contrasty film with Foma Fomapan 400 in DF96?

Candlejack · Sep 4, 2021

MattKing said:
There are lots of combinations that work well, the brands can be intermixed, and practical questions like availability, ease of use, package size and keeping properties are often just as important as the slight differences between features.
Personally, I am currently using Kodak XTol developer with Kodak Rapid Fixer. As I have had recent trouble sourcing the Kodak Rapid Fixer, I will be using Ilford Hypam Fixer when the Kodak Rapid Fixer is finished.
I also use Kodak Indicator Stop bath and Kodak HCA wash-aid - advantageous, but not necessary if you don't mind more water use and longer wash times.
My choices are good and reasonably popular ones, but there are lots of other good and popular choices.
Do you mind mixing up solutions from powders? I ask because there are advantages to powders, just as there are to liquids.
And by the way, almost anything listed on B&H will, with reasonable care, be safe to use at home - certainly as safe or possibly even safer to use at home as the DF96 you currently have.

Hello Mr Matt!
I think I would be looking for convenience of storage and mixing. It may sound blasphemous, but I dont want developing film to become a chore.

If there is something where I can mix, store in a 1 liter bottle and reuse for multiple sessions that would be great.

If theres something like "mix x ml with water, then use, then pour down the drain" thats fine as well as long as its not a super long mixing/prep time.

Im just extremely new to this area of film and have literally no idea what the options are besides what Mr andrew mentioned earlier.

MattKing · Sep 4, 2021

For developer, Kodak HC-110 is easy to use one-shot (mix it up and discard after use). It comes in a 1 litre bottle of very concentrated syrup - a one litre bottle should last a year and develop up to 160 films in that year.
Rapid Fixer ought to be re-used - mix up a litre of working solution, re-use it for 12 - 20 rolls, and then dispose of it properly - just as you should dispose of your DF96 properly.

Candlejack · Sep 4, 2021

MattKing said:
For developer, Kodak HC-110 is easy to use one-shot (mix it up and discard after use). It comes in a 1 litre bottle of very concentrated syrup - a one litre bottle should last a year and develop up to 160 films in that year.
Rapid Fixer ought to be re-used - mix up a litre of working solution, re-use it for 12 - 20 rolls, and then dispose of it properly - just as you should dispose of your DF96 properly.

Thank you! I just finished watching a video on black and white developers. HC110 (and rodinal) both peeked my interest!
Can the one shot developers he mixed with tap water?
Can I stick with fomapan 400 currently until I run out of film ?

Im going to look into them some more as well as ilford rapid fixer.

MatthewDunn · Sep 4, 2021

Candlejack said:
Thank you! I just finished watching a video on black and white developers. HC110 (and rodinal) both peeked my interest!
Can the one shot developers he mixed with tap water?
Can I stick with fomapan 400 currently until I run out of film ?

Im going to look into them some more as well as ilford rapid fixer.

I do all my processing with regular tap water, except for the final rinse, in which I use distilled water/photoflo (like literally a drop). Tap water should be fine unless there is something seriously wonky with your tap.

Candlejack · Sep 4, 2021

MatthewDunn said:
I do all my processing with regular tap water, except for the final rinse, in which I use distilled water/photoflo (like literally a drop). Tap water should be fine unless there is something seriously wonky with your tap.

Last question of the evening... definately getting alot of great advice..

There seems to be a clone (from what ive read.. not quite a clone) of hc 110 called legacy 110. Price wise it seems good, in stock and shippable. Any advice on that?

Andrew O'Neill · Sep 4, 2021

When mixing up stock solutions you really should use distilled water. It's better for long term storage. For working solutions, dilute further with tap water.
Stick with your current film if you find that it works with whatever developer you eventually try.

MatthewDunn · Sep 4, 2021

Candlejack said:
Last question of the evening... definately getting alot of great advice..

There seems to be a clone (from what ive read.. not quite a clone) of hc 110 called legacy 110. Price wise it seems good, in stock and shippable. Any advice on that?

No personal experience, but there seem to be lots of clones of HC-110 out there. I would be surprised if you couldn't get perfectly fine results out of it.

Andrew O'Neill · Sep 4, 2021

Candlejack said:
Last question of the evening... definately getting alot of great advice..

There seems to be a clone (from what ive read.. not quite a clone) of hc 110 called legacy 110. Price wise it seems good, in stock and shippable. Any advice on that?

I've never used it but give it a go.

Auer · Sep 4, 2021

Candlejack said:
Last question of the evening... definately getting alot of great advice..

There seems to be a clone (from what ive read.. not quite a clone) of hc 110 called legacy 110. Price wise it seems good, in stock and shippable. Any advice on that?

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/kodak-hc110-vs-ilford-hc-vs-legacy-pro-110.135773/

MatthewDunn · Sep 4, 2021

Andrew O'Neill said:
When mixing up stock solutions you really should use distilled water. It's better for long term storage. For working solutions, dilute further with tap water.
Stick with your current film if you find that it works with whatever developer you eventually try.

This is the better answer and is actually what I do.

MattKing · Sep 4, 2021

HC-110 doesn't usually involve a stock solution, although high volume labs sometimes use it that way.
And Andrew or Matthew can correct me if I am wrong, but I'm not sure Rodinal is all that suited for building the excess density you need.
Stock solutions come into play when the normal practice is to first mix up a more concentrated (stock) solution, and then take small portions of that stock solution and dilute them further just before each use. You would do that with D-76 or XTol (as examples) if you intended to use them at a 1+1 dilution.
Basically, if you are mixing something up for moderately long term storage, distilled water is a good choice.
And there is no reason not to use up the film you have. You just may not be able to achieve quite as good results with VDB or cyanotypes.
By the way, avoid T-Max 100 film for VDB, Cyanotype or any of the other UV based processes. Unfortunately that film incorporates a UV blocker, which leads to nothing but disappointment if you try doing a cyanotype!

Andrew O'Neill · Sep 4, 2021

MattKing said:
HC-110 doesn't usually involve a stock solution, although high volume labs sometimes use it that way.
And Andrew or Matthew can correct me if I am wrong, but I'm not sure Rodinal is all that suited for building the excess density you need.
Stock solutions come into play when the normal practice is to first mix up a more concentrated (stock) solution, and then take small portions of that stock solution and dilute them further just before each use. You would do that with D-76 or XTol (as examples) if you intended to use them at a 1+1 dilution.
Basically, if you are mixing something up for moderately long term storage, distilled water is a good choice.
And there is no reason not to use up the film you have. You just may not be able to achieve quite as good results with VDB or cyanotypes.
By the way, avoid T-Max 100 film for VDB, Cyanotype or any of the other UV based processes. Unfortunately that film incorporates a UV blocker, which leads to nothing but disappointment if you try doing a cyanotype!

I stopped using HC110 when Kodak came out with amazing Xtol back in about '96. I do remember taking the syrup from the bottle and making a stock solution with distilled water. From that I mixed up my dilution B, or whatever I felt necessary with tap water. I have heard of people taking a wee bit of the syrup, and diluting with tap water to make a working solution, but I've never done that.
In regards to Rodinal, I'm not sure if it's a good candidate for alt printing with the films that I use. Maybe a film with higher than normal contrast like Pan F, or eeeeeek!....Adox CMS 20!

radiant · Sep 5, 2021

Make sure your shadows aren't getting too much exposure; with Foma 400 it's probably enough if you shoot box speed or 800. This is important for next step.

Then develop like crazy. Double your developing time, nothing gets broken. You need to max out your highlight density. Use for example Rodinal, Xtol etc. "normal" developers. I'm pretty sure all developers work (but not monobaths). Now your shadows are "unexposed" you only grow the density.

Check my website for some salt prints made with this technique. http://kuvau.tuu.fi/finlayson/ http://kuvau.tuu.fi/plaza/

Candlejack · Sep 5, 2021

Figured I would try a little experiment today. Speedball ink on the film negative (in the sky( to see how it adds hightlights. Has this been experimented with, Am I re inventing the wheel?

Andrew O'Neill · Sep 5, 2021

Candlejack said:
Figured I would try a little experiment today. Speedball ink on the film negative (in the sky( to see how it adds hightlights. Has this been experimented with, Am I re inventing the wheel?View attachment 284392

I wouldn't apply anything directly onto the negative. I've used a piece of frosted mylar from the art store, and a soft pencil... but that acted more of a way to dodge, rather than to increase contrast. Why don't you try adding a wee bit of potassium dichromate to the sensitiser? For starters, mix up a 3% solution of the dichromate (ammonium dichromate could be used, too), and add say a drop to your sensitiser. You'd have to experiment. If too much contrast, then make weaker solution. At any rate, you will most likely have to increase the exposure of the print, depending on how strong the dichromate solution is, or how much is added. I would rather go this route than marking up the negative.

Candlejack · Sep 5, 2021

Andrew O'Neill said:
I wouldn't apply anything directly onto the negative. I've used a piece of frosted mylar from the art store, and a soft pencil... but that acted more of a way to dodge, rather than to increase contrast. Why don't you try adding a wee bit of potassium dichromate to the sensitiser? For starters, mix up a 3% solution of the dichromate (ammonium dichromate could be used, too), and add say a drop to your sensitiser. You'd have to experiment. If too much contrast, then make weaker solution. At any rate, you will most likely have to increase the exposure of the print, depending on how strong the dichromate solution is, or how much is added. I would rather go this route than marking up the negative.

Yup, good ideas! Thank you for the suggestion. Just a sunday experimenting

I ordered a new developer the hc110 clone by legacy pro and rapid fixer today. So im pretty stoked on that !

Wallendo · Sep 5, 2021

Candlejack said:
Yup, good ideas! Thank you for the suggestion. Just a sunday experimenting

I ordered a new developer the hc110 clone by legacy pro and rapid fixer today. So im pretty stoked on that !

Legacy Pro L-110 is a great choice. I just finished developing two rolls of film with it. It's big advantage over Kodak HC-110 is that the Kodak form only comes in one liter bottles. It also is a thinner liquid and easier to work with (although the new HC-111 is apparently much like L-110). I find L-110 (and HC-110) easiest to mix by buying a 5 or 10 ml syringe and a blunt tip needle to draw it up with. It is much easier than using graduated cylinders.

My last bottle of L-110 lasted one year and still worked well when I used the last of the bottle.

Candlejack · Sep 5, 2021

Wallendo said:
Legacy Pro L-110 is a great choice. I just finished developing two rolls of film with it. It's big advantage over Kodak HC-110 is that the Kodak form only comes in one liter bottles. It also is a thinner liquid and easier to work with (although the new HC-111 is apparently much like L-110). I find L-110 (and HC-110) easiest to mix by buying a 5 or 10 ml syringe and a blunt tip needle to draw it up with. It is much easier than using graduated cylinders.

My last bottle of L-110 lasted one year and still worked well when I used the last of the bottle.

Thats a great idea! I have a fountain pen collection... so I have blunt syringers already. I can dedicate one to L110!

MattKing · Sep 5, 2021

With the thick, older version of HC-110 I use a tall and thin 45ml Paterson measuring graduate. I put enough water into it to have the bottom of the meniscus of the top of the water at one easily used level - 20 ml works well. And yes, you need to look close.
I then very slowly dribble a tiny stream of the thick concentrate into the centre of the graduate, until the bottom of the meniscus rises up to the level indicating 6 ml more - 26 ml, if I started out with 20 ml of water.
I then pour the small 45 ml graduate into my larger mixing graduate, followed by several rinses of the measuring graduate into the larger graduate. If my aim is to use 300 ml of 1 + 49 dilution HC-110, I then add water to the larger graduate until the total reaches 300 ml.

removed account4 · Sep 5, 2021

Candlejack said:
Figured I would try a little experiment today. Speedball ink on the film negative (in the sky( to see how it adds hightlights. Has this been experimented with, Am I re inventing the wheel?View attachment 284392

looks like a plan! You might also experiment with a sheet of computer paper. Wax 1 side with paraffin and use that to add texture to your retouched area…. Combination printing is as old as photography itself .. . Have fun thinking outside the box

gone · Sep 5, 2021

I shot quite a bit of Foma 400 recently in 35mm size, but I use a regular old developer called F76+. For my tastes, the film is best shot at 250 w/ a Y fltr and my camera giving another stop of exposure to account for the fltr. Then it's tank developed for 7 minutes and 40 seconds at 1:8 dilution w/ the usual standard agitation, but I only give it 1 inversion a minute for the last 2.

Love the grain, it's nicer than Tri-X on the prints unless the Tri-X is developed in Rodinal. That's a sentence I never thought I'd write! Truthfully, there isn't that much of it anyway if it's exposed right. For sure it doesn't have the exposure latitude of some other B&W films though. A R fltr on the camera lens didn't work at all.

The 1st pic below is of an 11x14 print, and the 2nd is a scan.

Huss · Sep 5, 2021

FYI Foma 400 should be rated at 200, judging from my experience with it developing it in DF96 Monobath.

Donald Qualls · Sep 14, 2021

I've used Ultra 400 (rebranded Fomapan) with a red filter with good results. Three stops extra exposure, some might give four stops. Foma has slightly extended red sensitivity compared to classics like Tri-X, so there's less contrast increase than with most films, but it still darkens skies (especially if there's little haze whitening the blue areas).

Another thing to consider, in my experience, Foma 100 can be exposed at EI 400 and developed with Foma 400 time and give very good results, a little higher contrast than the 400 at box speed and no more grain. You'll never see grain in VDB anyway, any 100 films are usually a little contrastier than 400.

Getting contrasty film with Foma Fomapan 400 in DF96?

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