Germain's finegrain formula

[Lachlan Young]

Has any one got any practical experience with Morris Germain's fine grain formula as listed in the Chem recipies section?
If so, what sort of quantity should be made up - 1 litre or 1 gallon or whatever? What sort of EI and development times would be expected from TMY or Tri-X or other fast films? I imagine keeping the process temperature to 20C/68F woulds be a good idea.

All help much appreciated,

Lachlan

 

[df cardwell]

Lachlan, this is simply a subset of Edwal 12. Dr Lowe published a variable amount of glycin to suit the contrast of the scene. Germaine's other small variations, in controlled testing, have little difference to E12.

In general, this developer is, when ripened, gives very fine grain indeed, and quite acute. It does not have a shoulder, but encourages an upswept charecteristic curve; in other words, it renders highlights at a density superproportionate to their exposure.

In Zone System terms, expect N+1 ~ N+2 from straight line films like HP5, TriX, TMY or FP4.

It will make a fine developer for shooting on flat days, or foggy days. The curve from TMY resembles that of TXP, a classic portrait film meant to compress shadows and expand highlights. Not the thing for shooting on stage !

As is often the case, these 'classic' developers were formulated in a time when the desired negative had a different charecter than we seek today. I would suggest using Edwal 12 rather than Germaine's, and use only 3 grams of glycin. Make up a liter, and see how it goes.

65 to 75 degrees will be fine, but stick to whatever you begin with. My darkroom hovers between 65 and 68 degrees year round, I have no trouble.

df

 

[Lachlan Young]

Lachlan, this is simply a subset of Edwal 12. Dr Lowe published a variable amount of glycin to suit the contrast of the scene. Germaine's other small variations, in controlled testing, have little difference to E12.

In general, this developer is, when ripened, gives very fine grain indeed, and quite acute. It does not have a shoulder, but encourages an upswept charecteristic curve; in other words, it renders highlights at a density superproportionate to their exposure.

In Zone System terms, expect N+1 ~ N+2 from straight line films like HP5, TriX, TMY or FP4.

It will make a fine developer for shooting on flat days, or foggy days. The curve from TMY resembles that of TXP, a classic portrait film meant to compress shadows and expand highlights. Not the thing for shooting on stage !

As is often the case, these 'classic' developers were formulated in a time when the desired negative had a different charecter than we seek today. I would suggest using Edwal 12 rather than Germaine's, and use only 3 grams of glycin. Make up a liter, and see how it goes.

65 to 75 degrees will be fine, but stick to whatever you begin with. My darkroom hovers between 65 and 68 degrees year round, I have no trouble.

df

The look I am after is something like the attached picture which was taken on HP5+ and developed 1+19 in Acutol for 16 minutes. The reason I am looking for a different developer is because of the rather uncertain future of Paterson chemistry. I have looked at PC-TEA which is a definite possibility and am considering Fotospeed FD10 (unsure if it is available in the USA) which from all the available eveidence is like a sharper version of Aculux 2.

Your help is much appreciated,

Lachlan

 

[Gerald Koch]

Paraphenylenediamine and its derivatives are powerful sensitizers. If you choose to use any formula which contains them then you must practise scrupulous cleanliness and wear nitrile rubber gloves when working with the solid and solutions. After experiencing a reaction to CD-3 that caused intense itching and blisters the size of peas on my hands I have banished such compounds from my darkroom. Any perceived benefit is far outweighed by the danger.

 

[Lachlan Young]

Paraphenylenediamine and its derivatives are powerful sensitizers. If you choose to use any formula which contains them then you must practise scrupulous cleanliness and wear nitrile rubber gloves when working with the solid and solutions. After experiencing a reaction to CD-3 that caused intense itching and blisters the size of peas on my hands I have banished such compounds from my darkroom. Any perceived benefit is far outweighed by the danger.

They are, however, much less dangerous than handling Sodium Hydroxide or concentrated Sulphuric acid IF THE CORRECT SAFETY PROCEDURES ARE FOLLOWED
As for dabbling one's hand in paper developers rich in Hydroquinone...

Lachlan

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Ah... But then you might reduce the "authentic" darkroom smell of your hands that seems to last about two days after a session. I do however wear a lab coat.

 

[df cardwell]

I wouldn't give up on Paterson yet.

Ilford DDX is (also) very fine

Using your picture as a reference, E12 will drive the brights through the roof. Not the right shaped curve. You are already using a straight line film: DDX, XTOL.... Aculux ... all go in the right direction.

df

 

[Paul Howell]

I use a Edwal 12 clone. I found that it works well for me here in the desert southwest because the lighting tends to flat. The light is so bright and with so much reflected light most exposures have a range of 3 or 4 stops. It is very fine grain and sharp. For most other situations I would use 777, DDX, or HC110.

 

[Gerald Koch]

Ah... But then you might reduce the "authentic" darkroom smell of your hands that seems to last about two days after a session.

If you are referring to the distinctive smell caused by getting ones hand in fixer it can be removed with some 3% hydrogen peroxide. Wet your hands well, rubbing them together for a few seconds. Repeat if necessary.

 

[Gerald Koch]

The problem with ppd is not that it is caustic (like sulfuric acid) or terribly poisonous (like cyanide) but that exposure to small amounts can cause very unpleasant allergic reactions. Also, as a sensitizer you run the risk of being cross-sensitized to other chemicals. To add further insult, ppd is a known carcinogen. It's use as a hair coloring has been linked to bladder cancer as it is absorbed thru the skin.

 

[Lachlan Young]

The problem with ppd is not that it is caustic (like sulfuric acid) or terribly poisonous (like cyanide) but that exposure to small amounts can cause very unpleasant allergic reactions. Also, as a sensitizer you run the risk of being cross-sensitized to other chemicals. To add further insult, ppd is a known carcinogen. It's use as a hair coloring has been linked to bladder cancer as it is absorbed thru the skin.

Again I must repeat that the widely used Hydroquinone can be just as dangerous, especially as people tend to be much more cavalier with paper developer than film developer. Anyway, Rodinal has a warning sticker on its bottle warning us that it is corrosive - how many warnings do you hear about handling it?
I am very careful when mixing chemistry and take all reasonable precaution s- mind you the most terrifying people to be around are etchers as they seem to handle highly corrosive acids like they were water!
In conclusion, if you are careful with ppd and do not touch it with bare hands then it is safe enough.

Lachlan