GENIUS idea to get rise and shift from a TLR

johnielvis · May 8, 2013

I just thought of this and I just tested it. It works on the viewing lens so it'll work on the taking lens.

What you need is a TLR and a rolleinar set that fits it. Not just any old rolleinar, though, the olde school kind that come in three pieces.

What you do is take the prism part "the rolleiparkiel" ONLY and pop that on the taking lens to compose. rotate it to get the amount of shift or rise/fall you need--it's a fixed amount depending if it's a #1, #2 or #3 rolleinar. remember that position--take it off the front and pop it on the taking lens in the same position. shoot with your rise/fall/shift. Repeat as often as you want.

Pretty good, huh?

Try it yourself! Run to your camera! Mount that rolleiparkiel and rotate it around! SEE the shift rotate with it! ENJOY newfound FREEDOM!

AgX · May 8, 2013

That genius idea does not work if you compose with that prism mounted on the taking lens...

polyglot · May 8, 2013

Yeah, no. That just changes the location of the lens' entrance pupil, it does nothing for the perspective which is what shift is for.

johnielvis · May 9, 2013

polyglot said:
Yeah, no. That just changes the location of the lens' entrance pupil, it does nothing for the perspective which is what shift is for.

so if you change the entrance pupil by moving the lens (the "proper way") then it will work. But if you do it with an optical attachment, then it don't work. This makes no sense.

Have you tried it and seen the results?

AgX · May 9, 2013

We are talking about two different effects: a periscopic effect and an angular effect

johnielvis · May 9, 2013

We are talking about changeing the field of view without altering the position of the lens.

It certainly changes the field of view, which is the intended effect. It more has the same effect of raising or dropping or shifting the BACK of the camera and leaving the lens in the same position. Either way, the desired effect is the same--you change the field of view.

It works, professor, why don't you TRY it first before you say it won't work. You will see that it certainly does work.

OK lensbook professors, if it doesn't work, then please explain why my field of view changes just like it would if I was shifting the lens or the back around? Is this some new optical principle that you didn't read about in the lensbook? Explain why the field of view will not change with the prism in front. YES. Explain what is going on. provide diagrams. Make me understand. I want your superior knowledge. When I know what you know, perhaps the effect will vanish from my ground glass. Please help me see reality. I need your learned help to set me straight--literally in this case.

Here's why it WORKS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedge_prism

now please explain how this does NOT work. Please debunk this.

OH, apparently it's not periscopic or angular--it's a "prismatic" effect. At least get your lensbook terms straight. You lensbook boys are losing your edge.

JPD · May 9, 2013

johnielvis, you re-discovered a nice useful thing with the Rolleiparkeil.

Using it for "rise/fall" was already mentioned in "Das Rolleiflex Buch" from 1938.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7383/8722073091_4eb91a5577_b.jpg

JPD · May 22, 2013

Did I kill the thread?

JBrunner · May 22, 2013

JPD said:
Did I kill the thread?

Thread kill noted. I'll be watching you, Mister.

JPD · May 25, 2013

Maybe I should translate some of the german. It basically says that a less known use of the Rolleiparkeil is for photographing architecture and towers to avoid them to look tilted, and that you use the Rolleiparkeil upside down on the Tessar. The loss of sharpness is corrected by stopping down.

This is of course only useful on a Rolleiflex Standard or the early Automats on which you can use the push-on Rolleiparkeil.

So yes, it's possible. But you can of course also correct tilting buildings in the darkroom by tilting the easel and stopping down the enlarger lens, and if you have scanned the negative you can easily do it in an image editing program.

johnielvis · May 25, 2013

slides, however, require in camera correction. This method works great on the yashicamat with rollei bay 1. Ideally, there were these polarizers that were synchronized: one for taking one for viewing. Take one of those and put in two rolleiparkiels--then it'd be more easily used. BUT, if you're only using rise, you can attach/tape it on the taking lens and mark the ground glass where the "real bottom" of the picture is to aid in composing. it works great.

I'd like to find some in 67mm size to put on the hasselblad--this would be much much easier than lugging around the shift accessory. ANYBODYknow where to get prism "filters" like this? I think motion picture industry must use these. I'm sure they're out there, but where?

piu58 · May 25, 2013

> translate some of the german

Englisch is not my natural language but I try to translate the red maked part:

A less known way to use the Rolleipar wedge is the following. Photographing high buildings, towers and so on you can avoid tilting the camera and later on rectify it with the enlarger. Instead you put the Rolleipar wedge with the double arrow d o w n w a r d s at the T e s s a r [the taking lens, piu]. It is not connected very secure with teh Tessar, so you should include the spacer ring. [I did not understand this sentence, piu]. The degradation of sharpness has to be compensated by stopping down.

JPD · May 26, 2013

piu58 said:
It is not connected very secure with teh Tessar, so you should include the spacer ring. [I did not understand this sentence, piu].

I left that part out because I didn't understand it either.

The Zwischenring is maybe an adapter for Bayonet to 28,5 mm Push-On mount. But the taking lens on the early Rolleis with bayonet can also take 28,5 push-on accessories, so an adapter isn't needed. I'm not sure what kind of adapter the author means. The Zeiss Bernotar polarisation filter could be bought in the 32 mm push-on mount size with a Bayonetzwischenring (Bayonet I to 32 mm push-on).

Here's my 1938 Rolleiflex with the Rolleipar(keil) with 28,5 mm push-on mount sitting securely on the Tessar:

piu58 · May 26, 2013

As far as I undestand the sentence: The wedge has to screwed in the arrow downwards, that is the inverse direction. Normally that does'nt work. May be it is possible to adapt the wedge somehow but not very secure. May be there exist a spacer ring for polarization filters which allow to turn the filter.

JPD · May 27, 2013

Uwe, on my picture the Rolleipar(keil) is upside down with the double arrows on the bottom, and it sits secure. The black part of the Rolleipar(keil) can be rotated.
But push-on filters and hoods can be tricky, they can sit too loose or too snugly and you need to adjust the small metal tabs in the mount. That's why Franke & Heidecke started with bayonets on the lenses - so filters and accessories would sit secure. But I don't understand why a push-on accessory would be more secure if it had a bayonet-push-on adapter. Then the accessory would sit just as loose or snuggly on the adapter instead, not making it more secure.

From 1939, the year after the book was published, Franke & Heidecke started making the Rolleiparkeil with a bayonet mount.

GENIUS idea to get rise and shift from a TLR

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