General question

[TareqPhoto]

I feel i am confusing where i add y questions of different areas or topics related to film and photography under B&W, so i better started my own thread that i can collect my questions under one place by now, so i come here to see answers easily than check many threads started.

First question: What is ZS? how can i understand it better way in few words than reading books or long threads/posts? because reading long and many pages isn't my way, and i can understand in short words or by images, because i don't want to mix it with other understanding that i think it is wrong.

2. Metering film is different than metering di..... even for same format size? if not then how can i compensate? i have light meter but most of the time i don't like to keep using it in each/every scenes, at the end i will use the same reading of light meter on my di... camera and it may not be the right one as camera seeing, so is light meter always right and accurate? or do you just try to have the readings and then you be closer to that zone to your preference? i mean 0 exp by light meter or camera doesn't mean i will like it as it is, but i don't know if the metering is the same between formats and film/digital.

3. Do you do the modification or whatever you call it to film and get the result you want during the processing itself or after you finish processing the film and getting normal flat results? and which one you feel giving you better results overall? or there is no big difference? and which is easier to do if you are looking for certain look with film, doing it during the development or after?

4. I hear/read a lot about light leaking in film, what is the main cause of it or it is not easy to determine the cause for all film at once, i mean different causes? and what i should suspect as first if i see any kind of light leak in my frames?

Those are my questions for now, even if they have been asked before and answered it doesn't matter, i will try to focus here for my questions and i try to ask only questions that i needed, otherwise i won't ask, thanks if you answer my questions, i appreciate it and all are welcome to say something.

 

[HiHoSilver]

Tareq, 'Good questions. I am far from an expert, but have had the same questions at one time or another.

1 - ZS = Zone System, after Ansel Adam's technique of segmenting exposure values into zones that represent a doubling or halving of exposure - like a full f-stop.

2 - Metering between dig & film. Others will be much better on this than I, but they're not the same - and not that far apart. I'd gladly use Nikon matrix metering to arrange a shot w/ film.

3 - Others are way better than I to answer.

4 - light leaks - depends on camera type somewhat. In a camera w/ a bellows, a light flare not on the edge of the frame could be a tiny hole in the bellows. Cameras without bellows usually have seals about the film compartments or film backs that are s softer material such as foam or rubber that degrades over time and needs replacing. These usually have a fairly consistent location on the images & often on an edge.

'Hope this helps some & hope others can be more clear or complete than I.

 

[TareqPhoto]

Tareq, 'Good questions. I am far from an expert, but have had the same questions at one time or another.

1 - ZS = Zone System, after Ansel Adam's technique of segmenting exposure values into zones that represent a doubling or halving of exposure - like a full f-stop.

2 - Metering between dig & film. Others will be much better on this than I, but they're not the same - and not that far apart. I'd gladly use Nikon matrix metering to arrange a shot w/ film.

3 - Others are way better than I to answer.

4 - light leaks - depends on camera type somewhat. In a camera w/ a bellows, a light flare not on the edge of the frame could be a tiny hole in the bellows. Cameras without bellows usually have seals about the film compartments or film backs that are s softer material such as foam or rubber that degrades over time and needs replacing. These usually have a fairly consistent location on the images & often on an edge.

'Hope this helps some & hope others can be more clear or complete than I.

Thank you very much for your answers.

Well, i keep eyeing for the answers, and who knows what others will see.

About ZS, well, i thought about it this way, something related to exposure, proper and over and under exposure, but someone here pointed me that it is not about that, it is more than that, so wanted to know what is more about it then?

Metering is something i feel it is simple but members keep it as complicated with different opinions or answers, so i really don't know how to simplify it if others keep talking about it as it is creating an atom.

you mentioned bellows, well i am talking about any format, such as 35mm and medium format, because i know that bellow is used in large format basically.

 

[kreeger]

3. Do you do the modification or whatever you call it to film and get the result you want during the processing itself or after you finish processing the film and getting normal flat results? and which one you feel giving you better results overall? or there is no big difference? and which is easier to do if you are looking for certain look with film, doing it during the development or after?

Tareq, simple answer: I prefer to have a flatter negative with lots of information in it, and let me determine the right contrast when printing. There you have so many options on papers, surfaces, development time and toning.

Work towards a method to get as much information on your film in the first place, and develop film only long enough to get the highlight detail you want.
If you want more information on how to conduct your own tests, send me a private message. This has been covered hundreds of times here by others.

 

[TareqPhoto]

Thank yon very much, kreeger, i will let you know about it as soon as possible.

 

[Bill Burk]

Hi TareqPhoto,

I'll try to help you with 1 and 3.

There's two things you can do for your film: choose your exposure and choose your development time.

1. Zone System is a step by step way to do those two things.

3. I like to get good exposure and development. I know the manufacturer ISO speed is trustworthy, so I base my exposure on ISO. For black and white negative work, I shift my exposure towards greater exposure (2/3 stop). I do that so I can use the Zone System metering methods. When I am in trouble with light (because it is dark and I am hand-holding), I will change metering method and use the real ISO, because I know that's the film's real speed. I avoid pushing too much because I know at some point nothing will appear on film no matter how long I develop it.

I develop my film to a relatively high contrast, compared to others here. I like when my negative prints on grade 2 or 3 paper.

I don't criticize anyone who develops their film to a lesser contrast. There is a rich history of information that suggests a lower contrast negative leads to higher quality prints.

In a book I nickname "Todd Zakia" there is a wise saying... "The least, if it is enough, is usually the best." That can refer to both exposure and development.

I prefer to play it safe and give a little more exposure and a little more development. Maybe not the best, but I like a sure thing.

 

[TareqPhoto]

Thanks Bill, good points.

I am still figuring out film, i still get great results out of my films, not sure what i look for in particular, maybe i worry more about to get frames than how the results are, and once i got the results and good enough to my eyes i forget anything else, and then i keep testing to have same outcome, it is like i don't want to have something else, only shoot and develop to get the results.

 

[LAG]

Excuse me

1. What is ZS? ...

2. Metering film is different than metering di..... even for same format size? ...

3. Do you do the modification or whatever you call it to film and get the result you want during the processing itself or after you finish processing the film and getting normal flat results? and which one you feel giving you better results overall? or there is no big difference? and which is easier to do if you are looking for certain look with film, doing it during the development or after?

4. I hear/read a lot about light leaking in film, what is the main cause of it or it is not easy to determine the cause for all film at once, i mean different causes? and what i should suspect as first if i see any kind of light leak in my frames? ... ...

1. The Zone System is only a procedure based on a previous tonal painting scale assignment (...) that one day one pianist (and others with him that remained in the shadow) applied to Photography, by studying the relationship between film & development. That Tonal System is what you should learn first, then how to evaluate it with light and finally the film characteristic curves. Anyway "there is no learning without studying" and that means losts of "reading" (and comprehension).

2. Metering means applying the amount of light you need to the sensitive element you are working with.

3. When you photograph (with film), you do it three times (Box, Development, Print) You must learn to choose which one is the one for you.

4. The light (and the lack of it) we measure and care "in front" of us when we shoot, is not the only important light (and the lack of it) we have to think about.

 

[Kevin Caulfield]

The zone system is basically a procedure for determining (usually by spot metering) the range from brightest to darkest areas of a scene. When the range is large, development time is contracted, and when it is small, development time is extended (depending on how you wish the scene to be rendered). It usually takes some practice to be able to "read" a scene and some reading of the literature would definitely assist with understanding the principles.