Garry Winogrand's M4...

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Xmas

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Guys, ultimately, this post is about a guys camera...people can argue all day long about the
merits of one photog vs another...my post was and remains to be about a camera.
Gary used a 28mm /2.8 LTM some of the time... for his photos.
Or is that OT as well?
 

E. von Hoegh

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I thought I'd seen it all but never have I seen sprocket holes impressed on a pressure plate...most interesting. There must have been a tremendous amount of film run through that camera.

Nope. One frame sitting still, in the "right" environment, for a long time.
Think about it.
I have a '59 Kiev 4A that must have been used by a photojournalist; the chrome is gone from the advance knob and the knurling is rounded off - the pressure plate has bright aluminium showing through the anodising in a couple spots, but no sprocket hole outlines.
 

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Nope. One frame sitting still, in the "right" environment, for a long time.
Think about it.
I have a '59 Kiev 4A that must have been used by a photojournalist; the chrome is gone from the advance knob and the knurling is rounded off - the pressure plate has bright aluminium showing through the anodising in a couple spots, but no sprocket hole outlines.
Normally Kievs (and ContaxII) don't align film sprocket holes like Leicas (and clones) do.
Frame separation varies along film considerably even after a CLA.
 

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Wow. You've done your homework. Wow.
I have and use the same lens (a lot) it has a nice single coated signature and is higher contrast than the period Leica 28mms or 35mms.
And a long focus throw.
I shoot street in your face like Gary.
Though he (Gary) might have got his cheap.
But you did not say if I strayed off topic or not.
None of my Ms show any signs of wear like Gary's merely contact with pavement slabs, that makes them more affordable.
 

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Naw mate, yer not off topic. The 28 is a great weapon...which version do you use?

Difficult question all I know is it's serial number you need a book to work out which version it is.

It is a 28mm /2.8 LTM:-

Dead Link Removed
 

Ko.Fe.

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Canon is also mentioned to be 3.5 by some who have seen Winogrand.
Later he was also seen with Leica 28 mm, it is visible in YouTube videos.
I could understand why Canon 28 3.5, 2.8 was first, I can't afford even old 28mm from Leica, same model Winogrand used.
Some of his prints I'm studying on-line have heavy vignetting, BTW.
 

chriscrawfordphoto

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Well, photo history kinda sees it differently. BTW, my Christopher Walken video is poking fun...just in case the PC police think I'm a hitman. LOL


There are those in the art world who don't think highly of Winogrand's methods. A.D. Coleman once compared him to a monkey with a camera strapped to his head that randomly snapped pictures of whatever was in front of the monkey at the moment. As much as some people on APUG criticize digital shooters for shotgun-shooting 500 images and picking the one good one, I'm surprised no one has made the same comparison to Winogrand, whose methods were like a film version of the lambasted digital guy.
 

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There are those in the art world who don't think highly of Winogrand's methods. A.D. Coleman once compared him to a monkey with a camera strapped to his head that randomly snapped pictures of whatever was in front of the monkey at the moment. As much as some people on APUG criticize digital shooters for shotgun-shooting 500 images and picking the one good one, I'm surprised no one has made the same comparison to Winogrand, whose methods were like a film version of the lambasted digital guy.
If you are shooting candits at opportunity you don't have an option...
Selfies or actors and actress on set or location you can control expressions?
 

Ko.Fe.

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Where are flocks people who makes garbage assumptions about Winogrand. Do not be the same. Just drug your butt at some busy corner and try to get at list one as close to people as he did. You cloud also try to read and watch about him instead of spreading same over and over again. He was not only street photographer and he was not always spray gun.
 

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There are those in the art world who don't think highly of Winogrand's methods. A.D. Coleman once compared him to a monkey with a camera strapped to his head that randomly snapped pictures of whatever was in front of the monkey at the moment. As much as some people on APUG criticize digital shooters for shotgun-shooting 500 images and picking the one good one, I'm surprised no one has made the same comparison to Winogrand, whose methods were like a film version of the lambasted digital guy.
It doesn't matter how the shots are made, the best of Winogrand's work defined an era and a style of photography which is still being emulated today. In his later years he seemed to view taking the picture as the main event, not the photograph, but that too should not detract from his place in photographic history.
 
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In his later years he seemed to view taking the picture as the main event, not the photograph, but that too should not detract from his place in photographic history.
Not very different from Vivian Maier or even Mark Cohen.
And for me it is the same.
It is the "thrill" of going roll after roll and "being there" that matters most.
If I get one usable pic every few rolls, then that is the "cherry on the cake".
Mark Cohen comes close to what I do:

Except I don't use flash... not yet.

Oh, and here is Garry in action:
 

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Canon is also mentioned to be 3.5 by some who have seen Winogrand.
Later he was also seen with Leica 28 mm, it is visible in YouTube videos.
I could understand why Canon 28 3.5, 2.8 was first, I can't afford even old 28mm from Leica, same model Winogrand used.
Some of his prints I'm studying on-line have heavy vignetting, BTW.
My 28mm /2.8 Canon does not vignette noticeably.
It will flare without a hood cause it is a four group single coated lens.
Back then Canon used different design constraints from Leitz.
 
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Keep in mind, you're also looking at a print...a lot of photographers will burn in the corners
to draw the viewers eye into the image more....
 

Ko.Fe.

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Keep in mind, you're also looking at a print...a lot of photographers will burn in the corners
to draw the viewers eye into the image more....
Like this, I guess.

http://ccp-emuseum.catnet.arizona.e...ate:flow=15146794-9665-4909-aea1-c1ded41e4491
resize:format=full
 
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CropDusterMan

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When I look at that image, I try to imagine the negative and circumstances...it's an on the fly shot, metered by memory and instinct and
fortunately, there's good information there. I think the nature of the exposure , and print, would lead to a natural vignetting anyways...
but I have seen it in some of his work as you mentioned. Not sure how good a printer Garry was, but I'm assuming not too
bad. Lee Friedlander, who was a good friend of Winogrand and spent time with him in LA just before he passed, had a funny
story once of joining Garry in a darkroom one day when Garry was going to begin printing for a show, and watched Garry hang
a bow-tie and a rabbits foot off of the enlarger for good luck (he was apparently pretty superstitious)...Winogrand laughed and
said, "It can't hurt". I admire Winogrand and enjoy his work immensely...he had such a drive and passion for
capturing the world around him, one could say almost obsessive in nature. As photographers, I'm sure many of us can relate.
 

Marc Akemann

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Has anyone considered the image of film on the pressure plate might have been drawn in by Mr. Winogrand with a pen/marker? The lines aren't very straight. Just a thought. As to why one would do that, I have no idea.

Marc
 

Ko.Fe.

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Xmas

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When I look at that image, I try to imagine the negative and circumstances...it's an on the fly shot, metered by memory and instinct and
fortunately, there's good information there. I think the nature of the exposure , and print, would lead to a natural vignetting anyways...
but I have seen it in some of his work as you mentioned. Not sure how good a printer Garry was, but I'm assuming not too
bad. Lee Friedlander, who was a good friend of Winogrand and spent time with him in LA just before he passed, had a funny
story once of joining Garry in a darkroom one day when Garry was going to begin printing for a show, and watched Garry hang
a bow-tie and a rabbits foot off of the enlarger for good luck (he was apparently pretty superstitious)...Winogrand laughed and
said, "It can't hurt". I admire Winogrand and enjoy his work immensely...he had such a drive and passion for
capturing the world around him, one could say almost obsessive in nature. As photographers, I'm sure many of us can relate.
You cannot judge lens performance looking at a published print, with no provenance.
Yes all lenses vignette to a degree more or less.
The Canon 28mm /2.8 is pretty good with a low profile canon filter, even on E6.
 

ColColt

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I'm surprised Mark Cohen didn't get a knuckle sandwich in that video...not my style.
 

Theo Sulphate

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I'm surprised Mark Cohen didn't get a knuckle sandwich in that video...not my style.

It's offensive. He chose his victims/subjects carefully, I suspect. Had he been seen doing that in the neighborhood I grew up in, he'd get pounded into the ground pretty quickly and would never do it again. Where I lived, if you just looked at someone the wrong way, you could end up in a fight.
 

ColColt

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Indeed. I've even seen HCB do basically the same thing in videos.
 
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