Garry Winogrand's M4...

CropDusterMan · Mar 27, 2016

I'm trying to get my head around the number of rolls Garry's M4's have seen....
(For copyright reasons), go here to see the pics: https://www.cameraquest.com/LeicaM4G.htm

How many rolls does it take to make a pressure plate
look like this...? Lol.You can actually see the sprocket holes.

Ken Nadvornick · Mar 27, 2016

Screw the collectors. That this camera continued to be used after Mr. Winogrand's passing is the ultimate compliment to the engineers and skilled technicians who originally created it.

Although I would love to visit the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum in Washington DC someday, I am far more excited to see a rare vintage aircraft with oil drip buckets under its engines than the same aircraft suspended by wires from the ceiling.

Ken

CropDusterMan · Mar 27, 2016

Amen Brother! Look at the venerable DC 3...that is the Leica of airplanes. Apparently, Winogrand's widow
sold the M4 to a friend of Garrys and he continued to use it. Now that is cool. I do recommend the Air and
Space Museum though...it's incredible.

Ko.Fe. · Mar 28, 2016

It is known what he has two M4.

removed account4 · Mar 28, 2016

after he passed away there were 10,000 rolls of film to process still, cropdusterman ... it probably wasn't much that went through the m4 ...

blockend · Mar 28, 2016

I often wondered about that M4, and don't see how a moving film can impress itself on the pressure plate. We know Winogrand used a prodigious number of films during his career, and that camera has clearly seen massive use. However the only way I can imagine a sprocket hole pattern being retained by the back plate is if a film was left in situ for a long period, and the gelatine reacted with the enamel, perhaps with high ambient temperatures. I may of course be wrong and there's another explanation.

Whatever the facts, a man of Garry Winogrand's prolific film usage would be unlikely to leave a film in his primary camera long enough to etch a single sprocket pattern, and moving films don't make such a pattern as far as I'm aware.

pentaxuser · Mar 28, 2016

blockend said:
Whatever the facts, a man of Garry Winogrand's prolific film usage would be unlikely to leave a film in his primary camera long enough to etch a single sprocket pattern, and moving films don't make such a pattern as far as I'm aware.

You would appear to have a good point. Unless he had a different M4 for almost each film then surely at the rate at which he shot film any one film stayed in the camera for a very short time indeed. Just speculating now, but probably a much shorter time that most users leave their films in their camera without the image of sprocket holes appearing?

I wonder why sprocket hole images on pressure plates has never come up on APUG? Well I can't recall seeing any
Maybe someone can now point such former threads? Whenever anyone says that he can't recall similar threads appearing then somebody(bodies) instantly provides the evidence

pentaxuser

chip j · Mar 28, 2016

Leicas HAVE to be built to last FOREVER because, in Winogrand's case that's how long it takes to get a few GOOD pics.

CropDusterMan · Mar 28, 2016

chip j said:
Leicas HAVE to be built to last FOREVER because, in Winogrand's case that's how long it takes to get a few GOOD pics.

Come again?

Theo Sulphate · Mar 28, 2016

I think there is some chemical reaction causing the sprocket holes to appear in the plate.

Although -- once loaded and advanced, the sprocket roller guarantees the holes in the film will appear in the same spot on the plate always, regardless of how many rolls are used or how often film is advanced.

Ken Nadvornick said:
... I am far more excited to see a rare vintage aircraft with oil drip buckets under its engines than the same aircraft suspended by wires from the ceiling.

Actual flying WWII aircraft used in Europe and the Pacific are still flying not that far from you:

http://www.flyingheritage.com/

.

chip j · Mar 28, 2016

CropDusterMan said:
Come again?

Winogrand shot many tons of shit to get a few good photos. All that crap put the wear on his camera, not the good ones.

CropDusterMan · Mar 28, 2016

chip j said:
Winogrand shot many tons of shit to get a few good photos. All that crap put the wear on his camera, not the good ones.

Well, photo history kinda sees it differently. BTW, my Christopher Walken video is poking fun...just in case the PC police think I'm a hitman. LOL

Ken Nadvornick · Mar 28, 2016

Theo Sulphate said:
Actual flying WWII aircraft used in Europe and the Pacific are still flying not that far from you:

http://www.flyingheritage.com/

Lots of time spent in that hanger with a 4x5 Crown Graphic and egg cartons full of flashbulbs. I love that place...

:w00t: (Sean, we need this guy back!)

Ken

Patrick Robert James · Mar 29, 2016

If Winogrand stuck the back under his armpit when he was changing film the resulting reaction between the sweat, metal/paint and film could eventually cause the pattern. Just a thought.

CropDusterMan · Mar 29, 2016

Winogrand didn't sweat and there were never any photographic possibilities while he changed film. Lol.

summicron1 · Mar 29, 2016

Only time I've ever seen a sprocket pattern on a pressure plate it was because the camera went swimming with film in it. Something made the pattern of film etch onto the plate.

CropDusterMan · Mar 29, 2016

summicron1 said:
Only time I've ever seen a sprocket pattern on a pressure plate it was because the camera went swimming with film in it.

Hey, maybe you're on to something!

BAC1967 · Mar 29, 2016

Humidity with film in it is also a possibility.

ColColt · Mar 29, 2016

I thought I'd seen it all but never have I seen sprocket holes impressed on a pressure plate...most interesting. There must have been a tremendous amount of film run through that camera.

CropDusterMan · Mar 29, 2016

Garry did live in Texas for a spell...lots of humidity there.

Rich Ullsmith · Mar 29, 2016

CropDusterMan said:
Garry did live in Texas for a spell...lots of humidity there.

Enough about Gary Winograd. Let's talk about flying.

Young aviator takes a pretty girl out on a date. Drinks, appetizers, dinner, desert . . .the aviator talked and talked. About himself.
Then he noticed his date was getting bored, so he said: "Okay, that's enough about me. Now let's talk about flying!"

Someonenameddavid · Mar 29, 2016

I bought an M3DS from a yard sale once, and it had the glass pressure plate with a sprocket hole image from, I assume, the film not being used over a number of years. I gently wiped it out. Camera works fine and the collapsible Summicron gives me the image that I want. One of the three best yard sales I have ever been to.

CropDusterMan · Mar 29, 2016

Rich Ullsmith said:
Enough about Gary Winograd. Let's talk about flying.

Well hang on a second there Rich...my post was about Garry's camera.

If you want, I'll start another post about aviation...I've been in the racket for a while now. How about members photos of aviation....?!

horacekenneth · Mar 30, 2016

CropDusterMan said:
Well, photo history kinda sees it differently.

The photo history I've read agrees with Chip. Here's part one of an article about the rise and fall of Winogrand.

http://www.americansuburbx.com/2012/03/theory-standing-on-corner-reflections.html

CropDusterMan · Mar 30, 2016

Guys, ultimately, this post is about a guys camera...people can argue all day long about the
merits of one photog vs another...my post was and remains to be about a camera.

Garry Winogrand's M4...

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