Gandolfi Variant or Arca F Compact or ShenHao 4x5. User opnions needed!

Hello, this is my first post, I 've tried to read trough the older post, but want find any conclusions to my thougts.

I'm a pro photographer and usually I'm using mediumformatgear for work, but for a quite a while also 4x5. I'm strictly filmbased, till now at least.

I was using a lot some metal viewcameras but I'm tired of their shortcomings. As I do cityscapes, landscapes and portraits as well I need a versatile camera, so I ruled the pure architectural cameras (Silvestri and Walker XL) out, I just cant close enough for portraits with them.
After some calls to certain dealers I have the options mentioned above:

1. Gandolfi Variant 2 (used)
2. Gandolfi Variant 3 plus bagbellows (used)
3. Arca Swiss 4x5 F (used)
4. Shen Hao 4x5 (new)

Basically all of them are the same price.

And now, how to decide.

I look for a camera easy to use. I need front and back rise and fall, some shift, to the left and right, wide angle capability ( I'm going for a 80mm SuperSymmar or a 75 Grandagon). Thats basically it. I never use swings,... and so on.
I need to carry the camera around quiet a bit, travel with it, but no hiking longer then one day.

Anybody out there owning a Gandolfi Variant? I never handled one, but somehow like their finish and style.
The Arca is superb, I handled one as an Assistant years ago.
How about ShenHao, will the camera stand professional use?

Thanks for your input!!!!!!!!!!!

Regards Heinrich Voelkel

Arca!!..Evan Clarke

Definitly without question and an unqualified vote for the Arca Swiss F line. I have a Gandofli Variant 8x10 and my experience both with the camera and the manufacturer has not been good. I cannot in good faith recommend Gandolfi Variants to anybody. If I had the money, I would get rid of this one and buy an AS 8x10.

Jorge
My 8x10 is an older ProII model with all movements. It was in new condition when I got it on ***y for $750... I split the rail into 2 pieces to rack the camera on 1/2 the rail like the new cameras. I can place the monorail on the tripod and slide the camera in place and setup is almost instant. It is compact and light and has movements the new 8x10 does not have. 2 or 3 of these come up every year on ***y and I encourage you to look for one..Evan Clarke

If you can get an Arca F-line for the same price as a Shen-Hao, I'd take the Arca.

Haven't used a Gandolfi myself, but they sure are pretty. The woodwork doesn't show up on film, though. I'm guessing their supporters will chime in shortly.

Hey, Evan, this isn't photo.net. You're allowed to type "eBay" here.

eclarke said:

Jorge
My 8x10 is an older ProII model with all movements. It was in new condition when I got it on ***y for $750... I split the rail into 2 pieces to rack the camera on 1/2 the rail like the new cameras. I can place the monorail on the tripod and slide the camera in place and setup is almost instant. It is compact and light and has movements the new 8x10 does not have. 2 or 3 of these come up every year on ***y and I encourage you to look for one..Evan Clarke

Click to expand...

Evan, is this the Arca Pro II?

thanks so far

To all of you, thanks for your input.

Actually, I don't care about the looks. I need to work with it . Fast and relaible, easy to set up, sturdy and the weight of course are interesting for me.

Jorge, what about your Gandolfi, would you buy again? How easy is the set up. Would you recommend the level 3, actually I dont need to many movements, as I wrote before.

To the Arca-Lovers, how much more weight will the camera be, in comparison to the wooden fields. Or should I save up some money and go with a new one, they are even smaller now, the 4x5????

Answers raise Questions.

Thank you all

heinrich voelkel said:

To all of you, thanks for your input.

Actually, I don't care about the looks. I need to work with it . Fast and relaible, easy to set up, sturdy and the weight of course are interesting for me.

Jorge, what about your Gandolfi, would you buy again? How easy is the set up. Would you recommend the level 3, actually I dont need to many movements, as I wrote before.

To the Arca-Lovers, how much more weight will the camera be, in comparison to the wooden fields. Or should I save up some money and go with a new one, they are even smaller now, the 4x5????

Answers raise Questions.

Thank you all

Click to expand...

Hmmmm....perhaps I did not make myself clear. IMO there are many design flaws with the Variant as well as terrible service from the current manufacturer. I would not buy a Variant again, as I said above if I could I would sell it and buy an AS F line 8x10.

Jorge, I understand you. But what are the drawbacks in the handling? I mean, you live with that and you're taking pictures. Or is it so bad, that you rather use a Ixus, than hauling the variant out of the cabinet.

Regards

heinrich voelkel said:

Jorge, I understand you. But what are the drawbacks in the handling? I mean, you live with that and you're taking pictures. Or is it so bad, that you rather use a Ixus, than hauling the variant out of the cabinet.

Regards

Click to expand...

For one, the knobs are too small. If you live in a climate where you will be using gloves this is not the camera for you. With short lenses you only have the option of focusing with the back standard, this is not necessary unless you are using extreme wide angles like a 65 or 58 XL, but a 90 or 120? give me a break!

The base tilt does not lock securely, many times I have spent a few minutes focusing the camera only to move the base tilt when cocking the shutter. The detents are a joke, sometimes they work, sometimes they dont.

In my case the camera came with a crooked bellows, and I mean crooked, I have ruined many shots where the bellows vignetted on one side of the picture.

Getting information and prices from the guy that currently owns Gandolfi is like pulling teeth.

In short, it is the only camera I have right now so I have to use it but given a choice I would use something else, specially for the price they are charging for these cameras.

Hi Jorge,
Yes. It has axis tilt, front and rear rise and shift and the rails mount in a monorail channel like the current camera. I can mount it on the rail with one hand. I have a 171mm to 110 board adapter and can use the same lenses on my 6x9,5x7 and 4x5s (I am a junkie)...8))..Evan

To chime in for the Shen Hao - it is reasonably light, but very sturdy. Setting it up on the tripod and setting it to the zero detents (assuming you're using a quick-release head) takes about thirty seconds to a minute, including mounting the lens. Everything you need to set on it is easy to set and adjust. For the money, if you want a wooden camera, it is hard to beat. The accessories for it are inexpensive, and it takes a Linhof lensboard. I have used mine regularly, and taken it hiking in varied climates, and it continues to perform well. I've had mine four years now, maybe closer to five. I have shot landscapes, architecture (the January 05 issue of Metropolitan Home has some work done with it), and portrait work as well.

I think that one issue are the differences between using a monorail in the field and using a field camera. I am still getting my feet wet in LF, so your experience may well be different, but I really prefer using my Shen to using a monorail camera. There are limits to the length of the bellows that could be an issue for you, I haven't measured, but I am guessing that the maximum draw is about 300mm. If you want to use long lenses or closeups with longish lenses, that could be a challenge. As for the quality of the camera, I think it is fine, but mine does not get used extremely heavily. Mine shows that there were some shortcuts taken in cosmetic areas, but it is very sturdy and locks down very nicely.

The Arca F mounted on a 15cm rail compresses into a nice small package, and sets up faster than any wooden field camera. I think as far as weight comparisons, the Arca F models are about the same as the wooden field cameras. The 141mm lensboard models don’t seem to be much lighter than the older 171 models, but they are smaller and easier to handle, and I think just as strong and rigid. I have the 141 model, and I would pick that model again, regardless of price.

I have never used a Variant, but if it's anywhere near as well built as my Gandolfi Traditional 5x7", I want one.

strong lead for arca

Thank you all. As it seems Arca Swiss looks really good so far. But I still want to hear somebody else using this Gandolfi.

Jorge, are your complaints about your camera are true with the 4x5 model as well. Anybody out there, who can confirm or tell the opposite.

Regarding the ShenHao. Are all these movements not actually in the way setting up the camera. Looks like there are a lot of knobs to twist and turn. Same thought regarding the Gandolfi Variant.

I wouldn't care monorail or wooden camera, but I need a quick and working outfit.

Maybe there even other suggestions, gearwise.

Thank you all, it is really interestimg to read your answers, experiences and thoughts.

Regards

Heinrich

different formats with arca

eclarke said:

Hi Jorge,
Yes. It has axis tilt, front and rear rise and shift and the rails mount in a monorail channel like the current camera. I can mount it on the rail with one hand. I have a 171mm to 110 board adapter and can use the same lenses on my 6x9,5x7 and 4x5s (I am a junkie)...8))..Evan

Click to expand...

Do you use one rail and adjust the formats by changing the backs or you're owning three complete outfits?????

Arca-Swiss!

Owned a Gandolfi Variant II. Absolutely hated. Sold it for the Arca-Swiss.

LOVE the Arca-Swiss.

A friend owned the Gandolfi Variant III. Sold it for an Arca-Swiss system.

I own a KB Canham 8x10 lightweight wood field camera as well. Wood is lighter, yes, but the precision of the Arca-Swiss for the professional user is a must. I know 'cause I make my living as a photographer. This is not a hobby for me. This is not to be interpreted as a put down on the serious amateur, but there is a difference when a paying client is looking over your shoulder.

heinrich voelkel said:

Thank you all. As it seems Arca Swiss looks really good so far. But I still want to hear somebody else using this Gandolfi.

Jorge, are your complaints about your camera are true with the 4x5 model as well. Anybody out there, who can confirm or tell the opposite.

Regarding the ShenHao. Are all these movements not actually in the way setting up the camera. Looks like there are a lot of knobs to twist and turn. Same thought regarding the Gandolfi Variant.

I wouldn't care monorail or wooden camera, but I need a quick and working outfit.

Maybe there even other suggestions, gearwise.

Thank you all, it is really interestimg to read your answers, experiences and thoughts.

Regards

Heinrich

Click to expand...

The design for the 4x5 and 8x10 is the same, they just put the hardware in bigger pieces of wood. I cannot see anybody working in 4x5 fiddling with as many knobs as the Variant has.....

The older pre-F Arcas are even lighter than the F-Line, and more than adequate field and studio cameras at bargain prices. The F-Line is more precise and has a higher level of build quality because Arca switched to CNC machining with the F-Line series.

The Gandolfi and Shen-Hao are such fundamentally different approaches that it really becomes a matter of preference and philosophy. But if I were considering Gandolfis and Shen-Haos then I would also take a close look at Canhams, Wistas, and Toyos, entry end Ebonies, and even used Linhof Technikas, because they all would surpass the Shen-Hao and probably the Gandolfi.

Who wants a English camera named after the fat guy on the Sopranos?

I have 5 of them, The old 8x10, a new 5x7, 2 4x5-141mm and 171mm and a 6x9..Evan

I'm not saying anything here....

(but I don't think I like what I read...)

thank GOD I have the traditional..

eclarke said:

I have 5 of them, The old 8x10, a new 5x7, 2 4x5-141mm and 171mm and a 6x9..Evan

Click to expand...

Here is a quick snap of the 141mm and 171mm Arca 4x5..Evan

Well, I'd love to recommend the Variant but in all honesty I'm not impressed with my Variant Level 1 4x5 either... It will not focus even a 90mm SA without moving the lensboard backwards (or using a recessed panel) as the front standard clunks into the rear standard as you shorten the bellows to focus the 90mm. The rear tilt on the Variant is also a pain - small angles are difficult to lock as the indent "grabs" it back into the vertical as you tighten.

I also have the Shen which I bought when the Variant's limitations annoyed me too much... The Shen has more movements and has the advantage that the rear standard slides forwards to allow short lenses to focus without getting the bed in the shot. Overall build quality is not quite as good as the Gandolfi, especially the metalwork, but is more than sufficient.

I've not used the Arca F series, although I do have the older pre-F series one which is very well made and smooth and being a monorail has more movements than you can probably use in practice.

Cheers, Bob.