Galleries to see high-quality large optical prints in the US?

[Alan Edward Klein]

What was written can be interpreted as your wife is a man or that she doesn’t trust other men.

Well, I was using men for other husbands. Some of them act in ways that their wives don't trust them.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

As I understand it, the problems with the Lik galleries include:
1) high pressure sales tactics; and
2) questionable representations about the uniqueness and collectability of the product; and
3) in connection with #2, extremely optimistic representations in respect to the potential value upon re-sale of the product.
All of which are consistent with a sales presentation that is full of flash and glitz.
My rule of thumb is that if the premises and presenters are flashy/expensive, the product is likely to be lacking.

Apparantly you've never been in a Lik gallery and gone through their pictures and presentation? Maybe your understanding is not complete. Don't you think you ought to go yourself before making such a negative analysis?

 

[DREW WILEY]

You forgot she won the lottery, Alan. The first thing Mrs. Wartleshnatz does afterwards is celebrate by driving to the Krispy Kreme donut shop on the corner, and stuffing herself. Then she books a cruise ship, then she buys the picture. Then she spends some on an Elvis impersonator concert in Vegas, and gambles away whatever is left over, so has to hitchhike back home, where she can enjoy her Lik picture, if she can manage to pay her electric bill.
That doesn't work out, so she is forced to sell the picture for $49 to the donut shop, where it matches the wild colors of the sugary donut frosting. Happy ending.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

It's possible she was at Lik's afterall.

 

[reddesert]

I believe the "Leica Galleries" refers to the retail outlets selling Leica equipment.

I've only been to one; it sold camera equipment and also had a good-sized well laid out photography gallery. I believe the function of the Leica stores is also to serve as brand advertisements/awareness in high traffic places. I'm sure the corporate parent hopes they will sell cameras and maybe art, but likely understands that the Leica-owned shop/gallery has a reason to exist beyond literally selling enough cameras to cover the rent. Anyway, the shop/gallery was professional and low pressure; it was obvious that I was just there to look at some photos and wasn't in the market for a camera.

 

[NortheastPhotographic]

Because Peter Lik's name was mentioned, this is all you need to know: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/22/...cipe-for-success-sell-prints-print-money.html

 

[paddycook]

I've only been to one; it sold camera equipment and also had a good-sized well laid out photography gallery. I believe the function of the Leica stores is also to serve as brand advertisements/awareness in high traffic places. I'm sure the corporate parent hopes they will sell cameras and maybe art, but likely understands that the Leica-owned shop/gallery has a reason to exist beyond literally selling enough cameras to cover the rent. Anyway, the shop/gallery was professional and low pressure; it was obvious that I was just there to look at some photos and wasn't in the market for a camera.

This is my experience. And generally the stores are staffed by knowledgable salespeople. Some of them (SF again) also have outstanding photo book selections.

 

[Mike Lopez]

Because Peter Lik's name was mentioned, this is all you need to know: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/22/...cipe-for-success-sell-prints-print-money.html

There's a sucker born every minute. A fool and his money are soon parted. Etc.

 

[MattKing]

Because Peter Lik's name was mentioned, this is all you need to know: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/22/...cipe-for-success-sell-prints-print-money.html

This is the sort of information that I base my understanding of Lik's efforts on.
I'm also not fond of the images I've seen - albeit only on the internet.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

This is the sort of information that I base my understanding of Lik's efforts on.
I'm also not fond of the images I've seen - albeit only on the internet.

So you knock his reputation and skill on gossip you read without firsthand experience other than looking at his photos on the web claiming you're "not fond of them", who has made tens of millions selling his photographs from his galleries in the biggest cities in the world.

 

[MattKing]

So you knock his reputation and skill on gossip you read without firsthand experience other than looking at his photos on the web claiming you're "not fond of them", who has made tens of millions selling his photographs from his galleries in the biggest cities in the world.

It isn't "gossip".
It is the New York Times, backed up by similar information from other sources that have the same stake in the veracity and reliability of their statements and analysis.
There are lots of people out there who have made millions selling product that sells because it is popular or trendy - which is fine as long as there aren't attached to it representations about the long term value and collectability of that product that are, at best, optimistic, and at worst, hyperbolic puffery.
And as for the work not being something I'm fond of, well I'm not fond if it.
It isn't the type of work that I seek out or that resonates strongly with me.
The prices his work commands in his own galleries, sold by his own commissioned salespeople, are hardly likely to be representative of what discerning buyers who have the choice to buy from multiple sources, while competing against other potential buyers, would be willing to pay.
So many of his photos look like you might consider buying them because they go well with the carpet and add a splash of drama and colour to the living room.
EDIT: Don't get me wrong, if you like Peter Lik's photos and would enjoy having one above your couch and are willing to pay what I consider to be an overly inflated price for them - go for it. I just don't think that the price attached to them is anything more than the result of sales and gimmickry.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

It isn't "gossip".
It is the New York Times, backed up by similar information from other sources that have the same stake in the veracity and reliability of their statements and analysis.
There are lots of people out there who have made millions selling product that sells because it is popular or trendy - which is fine as long as there aren't attached to it representations about the long term value and collectability of that product that are, at best, optimistic, and at worst, hyperbolic puffery.
And as for the work not being something I'm fond of, well I'm not fond if it.
It isn't the type of work that I seek out or that resonates strongly with me.
The prices his work commands in his own galleries, sold by his own commissioned salespeople, are hardly likely to be representative of what discerning buyers who have the choice to buy from multiple sources, while competing against other potential buyers, would be willing to pay.
So many of his photos look like you might consider buying them because they go well with the carpet and add a splash of drama and colour to the living room.
EDIT: Don't get me wrong, if you like Peter Lik's photos and would enjoy having one above your couch and are willing to pay what I consider to be an overly inflated price for them - go for it. I just don't think that the price attached to them is anything more than the result of sales and gimmickry.

You mean gallery owners don't "hint" that the value could go up, like stock salesmen? I bought an oil on a cruise that was hinted to go up in value and is now worth 1/3 what I bid for it. People buy a Lik photo because it;s a Lik photo just like some might buy HCB photo that is awful. If he's done anything illegal, than he should be arrested.

The thing that bothers me is that we, of all people, photographers who love photography, who have seen professionals go broke including many of ourselves because of cell phones and digital photography, who should be the proponents of making a buck, and applaud thjose who are successful despite the difficulty in the industry, constantly knock this multi-millionaire photographer, one of the very few who has done well. Is there anything that one could like about Andreas Gursky's Rhein II" (1999): Sold for $4.3 million in 2011, it is one of the most expensive photographs ever sold. What a boring picture.

Is there anything nice you can say about Lik?

 

[Mike Lopez]

So you knock his reputation and skill on gossip you read without firsthand experience other than looking at his photos on the web claiming you're "not fond of them", who has made tens of millions selling his photographs from his galleries in the biggest cities in the world.

I’m old enough to remember a couple months ago when you were here badmouthing Brett Weston for not leaving his negatives behind to support children he didn’t even have because you read some misinformation someone had posted and you couldn’t be bothered to check anything for yourself.

Let me guess: you didn’t read the NYT article, either. Right?

 

[Mike Lopez]

I bought an oil on a cruise that was hinted to go up in value and is now worth 1/3 what I bid for it.

This explains a lot.

 

[DREW WILEY]

At what point isn't it photography at all, but something so overwhelmed with blatantly false color and other forms of manipulation that one wonders why a camera was even involved? I'm not going to get into yet another debate about the latitude of the term "photography" itself. In this case, another word better suits the discussion, "kitch"- perhaps a derivative of the term "ketchup", poured all over some dime a dozen postcardy scene, just oversized, to make the whole thing monotone bright red.

 

[koraks]

Is there anything that one could like about Andreas Gursky's Rhein II

Yup, there is. But you evidently don't see it. Which is fine. Just like it's fine that @MattKing doesn't see what's to like about Lik's pics. We all like different things. Good thing, too. Otherwise we'd all be running around in maroon clothes humping each other's spouses all day long. I can see what appeals people in Lik's pictures, and I agree with you that he must have business acumen to be commercially successful the way he is. And I also agree with you that there's nothing wrong with admiring that, or trying to somehow take an example from it (if we so please).

 

[DREW WILEY]

Well, since this thread started out by asking where to see "high quality optical prints" - that would pretty much rule out Lik regardless of the esthetic question. Inkjet seems to be his primary medium, and not particularly well done ones, technically. His outfit does mount them well, though that itself can be gaudy.

And I don't see why you want to emulate him, Alan - you already take better pictures than him. He runs on a bluff, pretending to be some significant artist which he is not - not even remotely. And at a certain point, he might actually trip over the long arm of the law in terms of misleading marketing practices, just like Kinkade did. You can only wave a red flag at a bull so long, tempting it to act.

Never underestimate how people with too much money might spend it for conspicuous consumption show-off purposes. It doesn't necessarily mean they have taste, or even that they give a damn whether their purchase has lasting value or not. People like that can throw away expensive stuff on a whim; I've seen it happen over and over again. Change the color of the sofa or the drapes, and there goes the big Lik picture too, right into the dumpster.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

If you ever get a chance to see the Weather Channel series that Lik did, you should. It is a laugh a minute. Be warned though, it is so full of bs that you will need your waders...

 

[gbroadbridge]

This is the sort of information that I base my understanding of Lik's efforts on.
I'm also not fond of the images I've seen - albeit only on the internet.

I see tall poppy alive syndrome alive and well.

I respect anyone who can turn a buck from something they enjoy.

 

[MattKing]

I see tall poppy alive syndrome alive and well.

I respect anyone who can turn a buck from something they enjoy.

That took some googling!
"Tall Poppy Syndrome" appears to be uniquely Australian/New Zealand.
I think the question that always arises though for a "Tall Poppy" is how they are going about what they are doing.

 

[reddesert]

Turning a buck isn't the only thing in life. How you treat people while you turn the buck also matters.

 

[gbroadbridge]

I bought an oil on a cruise that was hinted to go up in value and is now worth 1/3 what I bid for it.

I've bought tons of art on cruises that will never give me back what I paid for it.

So what?

Purchased because either myself or my wife liked it, it adorns the walls and I don't give a flying about others opinions of it.

It's always interesting watching self-appointed guardians of "true art' getting all in a tizz about how much is being paid for something that others enjoy.

 

[MattKing]

I've bought tons of art on cruises that will never give me back what I paid for it.

So what?

Purchased because either myself or my wife liked it, it adorns the walls and I don't give a flying about others opinions of it.

It's always interesting watching self-appointed guardians of "true art' getting all in a tizz about how much is being paid for something that others enjoy.

Ah, but are the providers representing to you that the cruise ship art is likely to appreciate in value as an investment?
That is where the Peter Lik approach bothers me.
The fact that his cruise ship art isn't as much to my taste as others might be is irrelevant to my consternation.

 

[Pieter12]

You mean gallery owners don't "hint" that the value could go up, like stock salesmen? I bought an oil on a cruise that was hinted to go up in value and is now worth 1/3 what I bid for it. People buy a Lik photo because it;s a Lik photo just like some might buy HCB photo that is awful. If he's done anything illegal, than he should be arrested.

The thing that bothers me is that we, of all people, photographers who love photography, who have seen professionals go broke including many of ourselves because of cell phones and digital photography, who should be the proponents of making a buck, and applaud thjose who are successful despite the difficulty in the industry, constantly knock this multi-millionaire photographer, one of the very few who has done well. Is there anything that one could like about Andreas Gursky's Rhein II" (1999): Sold for $4.3 million in 2011, it is one of the most expensive photographs ever sold. What a boring picture.

Is there anything nice you can say about Lik?

Legitimate, major gallerists would never directly imply anything about the investment value of an artwork. It is up to the buyer (and art consultant, if the buyer uses one) to make that judgment. Lik’s game is a con game, as are most galleries on cruise ships and resorts preying on people with more money than knowledge or taste.

 

[Taylor Nankervis]

I've bought tons of art on cruises that will never give me back what I paid for it.

So what?

Purchased because either myself or my wife liked it, it adorns the walls and I don't give a flying about others opinions of it.

It's always interesting watching self-appointed guardians of "true art' getting all in a tizz about how much is being paid for something that others enjoy.

Cruise ship art!?

No, it is not art. Drrrft.

This shelf-filler/look-see stuff is bought in bulk under lopsided commerical arrangements with the artists paid a truly miniscule commission (then taxed!) for their exposure while the cruise company plays 'winner-takes-all' — profitable and tax-free to them, not the artists! It is one of the worst and least respectable means of any artist getting a foot in the door as a career and too many fall for the trick, believing they will walk away with penny in da pocket and a life of bounty.