Gadgetry of Gadgetry! All is Gadgetry

Discussion in 'Ethics and Philosophy' started by Gerald C Koch, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    To paraphrase Ecclesiastics from the KJV. The Japanese do love their gadgets. But I wish the Japanese camera industry would test their designs on people other than the Japanese. There is a point where doing something just because you can becomes rather hollow. I have a fully automatic camera which has upteen program modes. There is a mode for backlit subjects, for shutter priority, for aperture priority and even one for manual mode. The problem is that one must shuffle through the modes using a single button and the LCD screen is not backlit. Want to change the film speed -- again scroll through all the choices with a single button. Forget changing anything at night. Good idea bad implementation.I bought the camera because it is auto focus but am stuck with a bad design. :sad:.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  2. Poisson Du Jour

    Poisson Du Jour Subscriber

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    My EOS 1N Has a backlight and the scrolling and doubling up of buttons does not worry me one bit. And the camera, as with the T-series FD mount cameras before it, has Italian design descendency. There is lots to love about the gift of technology that Japan has given the world.

    And there are more startling gadgetry trends out there to worry about.

    Where I am, Japanese residents (academics and their families at nearby university and hospital campuses) take their dogs and cats for morning walks. So...? The animals are actually robots, with twinkling, blinking LED eyes, glowing bodies, slow fluid movements and dog/cat noises on command. The dogs can even lift a leg to pee. Just work the app on the phone...

    Yes. Gadgetry is a wonderful thing...
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  3. BrianShaw

    BrianShaw Member

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    The problem might not be with testing but with the design team. This situation usually means that there were one too many software engineers who like making things do whatever is possible, no matter how useless some of the functions may be to “normal people” or how complicated it might make the gizmo. Oh, and some marketing folks who can’t constrain them!
     
  4. mshchem

    mshchem Member

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    Movie "Crazy People" Sony Ad



    Hilarious
     
  5. Craig75

    Craig75 Member

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    Thats why its easy to end up with a load of cameras, trying to find one that behaves the same way you do. Dials only for me and so help me god if it focuses after the shutter is pressed....
     
  6. faberryman

    faberryman Subscriber

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    The line between customization and too much choice is no longer fine.
     
  7. Ko.Fe.

    Ko.Fe. Subscriber

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    Those first world problems... I grew up in country where no modes, LCD were given even in twenty first century!
    http://www.sovietcams.com/index.php?-1680621202
     
  8. tedr1

    tedr1 Member

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    Choices of cameras has become complex. I purchased my first digital camera from a retailer with a return privilege that way if I failed to bond with the sucker it could have been returned. I found I bonded with it immediately (Canon A700) and still have it, and I chose Canon again for next two cameras, Canon is pretty good at designing cameras that are friendly for analogue users in my experience.

    Gerald, If you want to try something else the A700 can be found used on ebay for less than $50 (with return privilege), makes great pictures and works like a real camera when you want it to. It uses AA batteries so there is no need to invest big bucks in two batteries and a charger.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-Powe...169158&hash=item33dc6b47ae:g:svoAAOSwvTpaIw~8
     
  9. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    gerald
    does it have cupholders ?
    thats a gadget that could be useful..
     
  10. Craig75

    Craig75 Member

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    depending on your camera, you may not even need to change iso - some are iso invariant through their whole range so shoot at 400 or 3200 doesnt matter - you set the iso in lightroom not in the camera. Just set your shutter speed and aperture, leave iso at 400 and away you go.
     
  11. blockend

    blockend Member

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    This is why full manual cameras are some of the fastest on the planet!
     
  12. TheRook

    TheRook Member

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    For a camera to offer so many features, multi-purpose buttons are unfortunately a must. Otherwise, you will have a camera with far to many buttons to operate properly.
     
  13. blockend

    blockend Member

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    The rot set in - or the brave new world arrived (YMMV) - when Canon duplicated the aperture ring with a small wheel on the body of the A-1. From that point on operation surfaces were not discrete, but multi-function, a trend that has continued to this day.

    There are three ways to photograph in the wild. One is proactively, continually assessing the conditions and tweaking the settings, ready to press the shutter at a moment's notice. Two is to allow for automation (focus and exposure), but amend it to your informed experience. Three is to let the camera decide and hope film latitude hides its shortcomings. The last two are adequate for point and shoot cameras, the first has no equal in matching visualisation with outcome.
     
  14. tedr1

    tedr1 Member

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    Yes this is true. However not all camera makers are equally good at sorting the variety of functions onto a limited number of button and menus in way that is user-friendly.
     
  15. blockend

    blockend Member

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    Not sure I buy into the necessity for lots of buttons. I reckon most people could manage with full manual, and Program mode with a compensation wheel. That would offer people who know what they want the opportunity to be in control, a mode for shooting on the fly, and an override for when you get an extra moment, next to your thumb. Those could be managed with traditional control placement.

    The problem is cameras, particularly SLRs, tried to be all things to all people.
     
  16. BradS

    BradS Subscriber

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    I am a Software Engineer and in my thirty years of developing software and firmware for things like automobiles, commercial and military aircraft, disk drives, medical devices and industrial automation, I can say that the situation is almost completely reversed from how you have characterized it. We software people have little if any say with respect to feature content. Product management (aka marketing) drives feature content. The engineering team get to implement...
     
  17. BrianShaw

    BrianShaw Member

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    No offense was intended to you or those in your profession, Brad. But re-reading it I certainly was offensive. The applications you describe are very different from what happens in some commercial products. Blaming the software and systems engineers is a cheap shot, perhaps, but if it makes things better I’m one of those too - having worked both military and commercial systems with user interfaces from both the aquisition and supplier/developer perspectives. I should have chose my words more carefully. Lets agree to agree... its the marketing folks who are sometimes out of control.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  18. BradS

    BradS Subscriber

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    Thanks Brian. :smile:
     
  19. blockend

    blockend Member

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    To be fair to the marketing guys, they were up against it. From the moment SLR cameras gained through the lens metering, any reasonably competent photographer could get precisely the shot they were looking for. The market could only extend into users who were not competent, or who wanted the serious camera look without the technique. From then on design was a case of accommodating the spoon fed as well as the self starters. That's an impossible circle to square, while maintaining the simplicity that's the hallmark of all good design.

    A pro from 1960 with a Nikon F would be astonished that it took something like a EOS1 (and ultimately a D850) to perform the same job.
     
  20. Alan Edward Klein

    Alan Edward Klein Member

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    The problem with all the features is that unless you shoot all the time, you forget how to use half the features when you need them. Or where in the menu to find them to set them up. So what I wind up doing in the heat of the moment is to just leave it on P or A or S and shoot. Maybe adjust the compensation wheel or turn on the flash. Frankly, I get better shots if I'm focusing on content and arranging the subjects in the view rather than fiddling around with the menu. All these features are a real distraction to good photography many times.
     
  21. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    Alan has made a very good point. If one does not shoot often use the automatic or semiautomatic features and concentrate on the composition. If one shoots often concentrate on the composition.
     
  22. faberryman

    faberryman Subscriber

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    The real reason you forget them is that you never use them and don't need them at all. I almost never access the menus of my Fuji digital cameras.
     
  23. rrusso

    rrusso Subscriber

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    Me either. They're probably the only manufacturer who actually listened at all to photographers regarding design and layout. Maybe it's not perfect, but it makes a lot more sense to me...set your shutter speed with an actual knob, aperture with an actual aperture ring. Want aperture priority? Turn the shutter speed dial to "A". Shutter priority...set the aperture ring to "A". Full auto? Simply move the actual physical switch to "Auto".
     
  24. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    The idea is to cram every function possible on a camera to get ones camera to be chosen by a customer over one from another brand. It does not matter if the user is befuddled as long as the customer buys your camera.
     
  25. guangong

    guangong Subscriber

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    ...and the instruction manuals get thicker and thicker...as well as including instructions in every major world language. So you cannot just stick the manual into a pocket for on the spot reference.
     
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