FWIW, seems that Flic Film has their own brand "UltraPan" film in 120.

cmacd123 · Aug 26, 2023

I in theory should have five rolls on the way to me from Longview AB.

no idea of the source or background of this, but they show it packed in a cardboard tube. I ordered the 400 and they did send me a tracking number so I will be watching ye olde Post box. they also have a 100 version. More info when it arrives, and perhaps even more when it develops.

they sell a 35mm version of these also in their "special" plastic cassettes.

I will say that those folks are if nothing else film enthusiasts.

Craig · Aug 26, 2023

I wonder if its rebadged Kentmere?

pentaxuser · Aug 27, 2023

Craig said:
I wonder if its rebadged Kentmere?

Sounds as if it has to be rebadged something, certainly There was some suggestion in another thread on Photrio that even HP5+ is being rebadged

pentaxuser

cmacd123 · Aug 27, 2023

I will be very interested to have a close look at this to see if their are any clues to the origin. The Cardboard tube package is as far as I know rather unique. Anyone know of any other current 120 film in a cardbaord tube with crimped ends?

Craig · Aug 28, 2023

pentaxuser said:
Sounds as if it has to be rebadged something, certainly There was some suggestion in another thread on Photrio that even HP5+ is being rebadged

I thought I remembered seeing somewhere that Harman was quite emphatic that an Ilford emulsion would never be sold under anything but it's Ilford identity. Kentmere however, could be rebranded.

Don_ih · Aug 28, 2023

Craig said:
I thought I remembered seeing somewhere that Harman was quite emphatic that an Ilford emulsion would never be sold under anything but it's Ilford identity.

What was once true of the future is subject to change. If it makes economic sense for Ilford to let other people put a name on one of their products, what they said in the past isn't going to stop it from happening.

I thought the 35mm UltraPan was Foma.

koraks · Aug 28, 2023

pentaxuser said:
There was some suggestion in another thread on Photrio that even HP5+ is being rebadged

I think it was FP4+ being sold as a 400-speed film with a different label stuck onto it. And it wasn't so much a suggestion as an actual observation.

Craig said:
I thought I remembered seeing somewhere that Harman was quite emphatic that an Ilford emulsion would never be sold under anything but it's Ilford identity.

Yeah. Ilford offered a 'no comment' when confronted with the existence of FP4+ cassettes with a 3rd party label & brand name stuck onto it. Which goes to show that anything is possible, even if undesirable, and that it's questionable if something realistically can and should be done about it.

Craig · Aug 28, 2023

koraks said:
Yeah. Ilford offered a 'no comment' when confronted with the existence of FP4+ cassettes with a 3rd party label & brand name stuck onto it. Which goes to show that anything is possible, even if undesirable, and that it's questionable if something realistically can and should be done about it.

I suppose Harman has no control once something is sold by them, I was thinking of them doing a private label offering on behalf of a third party.

Don_ih · Aug 28, 2023

Craig said:
I was thinking of them doing a private label offering on behalf of a third party.

Well, Ilford may have said that they won't let one of their branded emulsions be sold as something else, but they used to let FP4 be branded Arista.

faberryman · Aug 28, 2023

Flic Film UltraPan 400 could be just about anything. It might not even be an ISO 400 film. We have certainly seen rebranders misrepresent the ISO of film before. UltraPan 400 is a pig in a poke. Move along. Nothing to see here.

MattKing · Aug 28, 2023

Don_ih said:
Well, Ilford may have said that they won't let one of their branded emulsions be sold as something else, but they used to let FP4 be branded Arista.

That was the now bankrupt Ilford Imaging, not the current (since 2005?) Harman Technology Ltd.

MattKing · Aug 28, 2023

faberryman said:
Flic Film UltraPan 400 could be just about anything. It might not even be an ISO 400 film. We have certainly seen rebranders misrepresent the ISO of film before. UltraPan 400 is a pig in a poke.

Perhaps not a "pig in a poke", but rather an "as yet unknown quantity".
Flic Film do seem to be extremely committed and highly active, so I'm hopeful. I'm also reserving my judgment respecting the couple of minor missteps from them I've observed so far.

faberryman · Aug 28, 2023

MattKing said:
Perhaps not a "pig in a poke", but rather an "as yet unknown quantity".

I think "pig in a poke" is an accurate description of UltraPan 400:

pig in a poke (noun phrase) - something offered in such a way as to obscure its real nature or worth

It is interesting that Flic Film is forthcoming about the origin of its color and selected black and white films, but secretive about the origin of its UltraPan black and white films. It makes you wonder why.

Flighter · Aug 28, 2023

The developing times for Rodinal, ID-11, Xtol and D-76 suggest a Foma origin.

Don_ih · Aug 28, 2023

MattKing said:
That was the now bankrupt Ilford Imaging, not the current (since 2005?) Harman Technology Ltd.

Who cares? It's the same company.

Don't bother saying it's not.

MattKing · Aug 28, 2023

Don_ih said:
Who cares? It's the same company.

Don't bother saying it's not.

Different corporations.
Different share structure.
Different owners.
Different management.
Different employees - mostly.
Big differences in the manufacturing facilities.
Different distributors.
Some differences in the product lines.
Harman Technology bought lots of useful stuff from the receiver/bankruptcy trustee, and have made good use of it in the nearly two decades since the old Ilford Imaging was a going concern.
That included a newly downsized coating line, which may or may not have been fully up and running before Ilford Imaging imploded. The old high capacity coating line(s), which most likely were used for all the film "dumped" as Arista and other brands at the end, were decommissioned.
And they were able to negotiate a longish term lease of the old premises - so there is some continuity.
It is a really different company.

faberryman · Aug 28, 2023

The previous Ilford (Harman) policy of not letting anyone rebrand Ilford films is now out the window. Analogue Wonderland's new WonderPan 400 is rebranded Ilford FP4+.

Don_ih · Aug 28, 2023

... and I even said don't bother.

It's the same company. Doesn't matter if they sell it to Santa Claus or Idi Amin. It's the same company.

cmacd123 · Aug 28, 2023

I suepct that the Arista English Profesional of Old was likly Ilford Pan , and that they is now known as Kentmere pan. the 125 vesion may have been FP4. when the buyout occurred, the new company made the desion to no longer produce Movie film, and also to restrict the Private label business.

Ilford Pan 100 and 400 were sold in "Special markets" and were different enough that the distributors there could not divert them into Ilford's Main Markets. Since they were onlysold in those markets I can't be sure if they are still arround. the Kentmere product IS aimed at "Price Sensitive" customers.

By the developing times given for the flic film ultra pan, I am also supsisios that the 35mm it is FOMA that has be repackaged by Flic Film. I also got a few rolls of Photo warehouse "Finesse" and it seems to be in similar packaging.

(right down to the Fuji inspired clear cans)

Since the flic 120 is supposed to come in a unique {and claimed Eco friendly} package I am very courious what it will look like. Canada Post expects it to get to me on September 5, current status is

Aug. 28

12:57 pm

Item accepted at the Post Office Longview,AB

Don_ih · Aug 28, 2023

cmacd123 said:
the 125 vesion may have been FP4.

It definitely was. I have a pack of it in 4x5 - it is fp4.

I'm interested to see what the 120 UltraPan is, though. I don't imagine Foma sends their film out rebranded in crimped cardboard tubes.

Craig · Aug 28, 2023

Don_ih said:
It's the same company. Doesn't matter if they sell it to Santa Claus or Idi Amin. It's the same company.

On what basis would you say that? From a legal, tax and corporate governace point of view that is completely wrong.

cmacd123 · Aug 28, 2023

Don_ih said:
I'm interested to see what the 120 UltraPan is, though. I don't imagine Foma sends their film out rebranded in crimped cardboard tubes.

yes, that is the mystery, Do the folks in rural Alberta have a set up to re-roll 120 film? are they repacking pre-rolled film? is it Magic?
tonight my Facebook also had a mention of "Street Candy" 35mm film, also in a cardboard tube. And one of Flic's Videos did say that they were the ones packing film for the Street Candy brand. Just looking at the flic film site, they are also now showing the "electra 100" in cardboard packaging.

MattKing · Aug 28, 2023

Flic Film might be handling just the packaging - receiving the spooled film, with backing paper installed, and handling things from there.
I'd be really interested to see whether there is anything printed on the backing paper or sealing tape that identifies the film. Perhaps Flic Film add that.
There are crazier things out there in the world of smaller film brands.
For those who may be wondering what the tube looks like:

Don_ih · Aug 29, 2023

Craig said:
On what basis would you say that? From a legal, tax and corporate governace point of view that is completely wrong.

On the basis of ... who cares? What on earth does it matter?

I'll amend that. If you want to talk about the entity "Ilford" and say "they" claim "this" or "that", then you don't get to say that that entity ceases to exist when various managerial or ownership changes take place. You should instead be saying "Joe Longnose" (or whoever the employee or owner is that said it) "claims this or that". And then don't claim it has anything to do with Ilford.

If you can't say that Ilford is something that persists through "legal, tax, and corporate governance" changes, don't mention "Ilford".

The company hasn't transitioned to processing peanuts or anything. "Ilford" is still very plainly emblazoned on all their film and paper.

But it really does reduce to: what does it matter?

cmacd123 · Aug 29, 2023

AS far as "Ilford" the original company is GONE. two new companies were set up who each own some of the know how and rights of the now long gone company. (as well as in some cases some of the equipment.)

think of it this way, if someone trades in their car, and you buy it, you may or may not have the same tasks you want it to do for you.

Further, the folks that set up Harmon Technology, which is the firm in Moberly who has the Black and white film products, sold out and retired. so that company is now run by a different group who have the rights to change any or all of the former managements policies.

FWIW, seems that Flic Film has their own brand "UltraPan" film in 120.

cmacd123

Craig

pentaxuser

cmacd123

Craig

Don_ih

koraks

Moderator

Craig

Don_ih

faberryman

MattKing

Moderator

MattKing

Moderator

faberryman

Flighter

Don_ih

MattKing

Moderator

faberryman

Don_ih

cmacd123

Don_ih

Craig

cmacd123

MattKing

Moderator

Don_ih

cmacd123

FWIW, seems that Flic Film has their own brand "UltraPan" film in 120.

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency