Future contax

[BobbyR]

While mulling over the Zeiss verses Leitz lenses issue, just mulling not preparing to buy, I noticed on the Zeiss site, that their wording implied that it will not be to long before agreement giving Kyocera the exclusive use of the name Contax expires, do you think Zeiss will consider producing cameras to go head-to-head with the Leica line?

 

[Michel Hardy-Vallée]

Two words: Zeiss Ikon.

 

[keithwms]

And a lovely two words those are!

I think Zeiss would be wise to focus on making highly prized lenses for respected bodies, and let the body hooplah blow on by. I don't want to know how much Leica sank into the M8 and the modul-R.

 

[Pinholemaster]

If only I had the bucks, I want their 18 mm for my Leica set up.

It's good to dream and wish.

 

[Pinholemaster]

Keith

Leica sank too much in the M8. It's a dog. Too bad. Perhaps they'll get it right with the M9.

Anyone remember the M5? Another dog. The Minolta CLE was better than the M5.

 

[keithwms]

Leica sank too much in the M8. It's a dog. Too bad.

Walt I said I don't want to know!

 

[Nick Merritt]

I have to disagree about the M5. Yes, it's slightly larger than the other Ms but it's an extremely useable and well thought out camera. But this is off the track.

 

[copake_ham]

As to the OP - I'm not sure how much the Contax name is worth nowadays.

It's simply a brand and it's been bandied about, bought and sold so much etc. that I think it's lost its "Zeiss lineage" and its cachet.

In fact, with the resurrection of the Ikon label via Cosina - I think Zeiss has already made a decision with regard to film RFs.

Not to deny that they might "resurrect" the Contax label as a brand for a new line of digis?

 

[david b]

Maybe if the possible Fuji MF range finder does well, Zeiss will bring back a folder too?

 

[mikebarger]

Oh, I thought this was a scifi thread.


Mike

 

[BobbyR]

Two words: Zeiss Ikon.

Here are the exact words from the Zeiss site:
". What will happen to the Contax brand in the future?
Under the brand name CONTAX, Kyocera – Kyoto Ceramics has launched excellent cameras with Carl Zeiss lenses on the market for many years. We regret that Kyocera has decided not to continue these activities in accordance with an agreement signed on April 12, 2005.

However, there is still a contract between Carl Zeiss and Kyocera governing the exclusive use of the CONTAX brand by Kyocera. Since this contract will remain in effect for several more years, we cannot yet provide any concrete information on future developments."

On the same site Zeiss says the ZM lenses record 100 line per millemeter more than the ZF lenses,
I still think Zeiss should produce a slr to go head to head with the Leitz boys.

On an OT topic: At a Leica site, not the official one, but dedicated to Leica, the gent running the site said the Ricoh G1 and G1s were the best ever point and shoot cameras produced, bar none.

 

[oldglass]

As to the OP - I'm not sure how much the Contax name is worth nowadays.

It's simply a brand and it's been bandied about, bought and sold so much etc. that I think it's lost its "Zeiss lineage" and its cachet.

In fact, with the resurrection of the Ikon label via Cosina - I think Zeiss has already made a decision with regard to film RFs.

Not to deny that they might "resurrect" the Contax label as a brand for a new line of digis?

I think the name Contax still carries some considerable marketing weight. Whoever owns it.

If Zeiss partners with the right niche company (maybe ricoh?) and release a new Digital Contax RF (with plenty of nods to the classic one), I am sure Leica will have a cold sweat.

 

[BobbyR]

I think the name Contax still carries some considerable marketing weight. Whoever owns it.

If Zeiss partners with the right niche company (maybe ricoh?) and release a new Digital Contax RF (with plenty of nods to the classic one), I am sure Leica will have a cold sweat.

IF they have to go digital the game is over, they already have a large business just with their lenses; it is, will/can they remain in the now small field of 135 mm cameras, and there the slr field is the one most endangered.
Film is undergoing a natural valley; digital is riding a natural, but non-sustainable wave. Part of the equation is for film to be able ride it out till the digi bubble bursts.
Another part is for major companies not to pull a Canon and bail out; the Leica concern is doing their best, as is Nikon.
Will the Zeiss concern do the same?

I wish they would without needing a Japanese partner, but the Japanese near fanatical love of cameras is not a bad thing.
Bobby

 

[oldglass]

IF they have to go digital the game is over, they already have a large business just with their lenses; it is, will/can they remain in the now small field of 135 mm cameras, and there the slr field is the one most endangered.
Film is undergoing a natural valley; digital is riding a natural, but non-sustainable wave. Part of the equation is for film to be able ride it out till the digi bubble bursts.
Another part is for major companies not to pull a Canon and bail out; the Leica concern is doing their best, as is Nikon.
Will the Zeiss concern do the same?

I wish they would without needing a Japanese partner, but the Japanese near fanatical love of cameras is not a bad thing.
Bobby

I agree with you on the natural valley when it comes to film. In my view, the key question is will film made the transition from consumer to artistic market. Just like painting did a hundred years ago.

I'm not sure about digital being non-sustainable, certainly the demands for digital will sustain the technology and the market comfortably for the foreseeable future.

Back to Zeiss, why do you wish them to not have a Japanese partner? Seems like an ideal one to me. Especially as Japanese still loves *film* cameras

 

[BobbyR]

Back to Zeiss, why do you wish them to not have a Japanese partner? Seems like an ideal one to me. Especially as Japanese still loves *film* cameras

While going through a site, (I think it is in this site somewhere) by a gent who probably forgot more about cameras than I will ever know, he made a remark that the Japanese are very good, due to their system at making a lens that is very, very good; whereas again due to their system they lack the individualist touches that make Leica lenses and top German Zeiss lenses, as incredible as they are.
I read of the effort in designing the new R8 Leica, and then read that the Zeiss Ikon, under the skin is still basically Cosina Bessa.

For Zeiss to sell an slr, they would need an edge such as the one that Leica has, theirs are made in Europe.
Does that mean that Asians make bad cameras, Canon, Nikon, Topcon disproved that decades ago,(Topcon produced the 300 2.8 that set standards) but it is a psychological edge, (especially at the prices they sell for) and the very best Zeiss lenses ARE still made in Germany.
Bobby
PS--This is the gent who said that Ricoh, made the forever best 135mm point and shoot camera in history.

 

[naaldvoerder]

While going through a site, (I think it is in this site somewhere) by a gent who probably forgot more about cameras than I will ever know, he made a remark that the Japanese are very good, due to their system at making a lens that is very, very good; whereas again due to their system they lack the individualist touches that make Leica lenses and top German Zeiss lenses, as incredible as they are.
I read of the effort in designing the new R8 Leica, and then read that the Zeiss Ikon, under the skin is still basically Cosina Bessa.

For Zeiss to sell an slr, they would need an edge such as the one that Leica has, theirs are made in Europe.
Does that mean that Asians make bad cameras, no, Canon, Nikon, Topcon disproved that decades ago, but it is a psychological edge, (especially at the prices they sell for) and the very best Zeiss lenses ARE still made in Germany.
Bobby
PS--This is the gent who said that Ricoh, made the forever best 135mm point and shoot camera in history.

What aload of bull.... What system, that hinders the Japanese people to make a exceptional lens/camera, are we talking about here? Political system, Economical system? Immune system? Or is the basis of this "observation" in the system of thought that atrributes certain deficiencies to certain peoples, as did a school of thought some 50-odd years ago?

Jaap Jan

 

[BobbyR]

What aload of bull.... What system, that hinders the Japanese people to make a exceptional lens/camera, are we talking about here? Political system, Economical system? Immune system? Or is the basis of this "observation" in the system of thought that atrributes certain deficiencies to certain peoples, as did a school of thought some 50-odd years ago?

Jaap Jan

Are you ignorant by birth or is it a learned trait?

In Japan you follow the system, respect for elders is primary, you do it as you are told, you do not challenge the system.
Try looking up the word except from which exception is derived.

You are the only one who even considered this point: "Or is the basis of this "observation" in the system of thought that atrributes certain deficiencies to certain peoples,"

I don't know what caused your schizophrenic reaction, but try overcoming it.
Bobby
PS--When it comes to digital cameras, you don't think Canon and Nikon have a similar psychological edge?

 

[copake_ham]

Are you ignorant by birth or is it a learned trait?

In Japan you follow the system, respect for elders is primary, you do it as you are told, you do not challenge the system.....

Hmmm...there are folks I know of who would say these same "characteristics" are very Germanic....

Oh, oh, stereotypes - aren't they just so damned stupid!

 

[naaldvoerder]

Are you ignorant by birth or is it a learned trait?

I try to learn all I can

In Japan you follow the system, respect for elders is primary, you do it as you are told, you do not challenge the system.
Try looking up the word except from which exception is derived

.

Aaah, that system. That system didn't prevent the Japanese to create the Katana, which I am told (I am not remotely an expert), was/is a sword that in it's characteristics was without peer in Germany, Spain , France or anywhere else in Europe, a sheer metallurgical marvel. Some Japanese exceptional blacksmith must have ignored the "system" there, you think???

You are the only one who even considered this point: "Or is the basis of this "observation" in the system of thought that atrributes certain deficiencies to certain peoples,"

I don't know what caused your schizophrenic reaction, but try overcoming it.

I always get like that when a complete country of people is deemed inapt or incapabeble of achiving something. I was under the impression the Japanese already made exceptional lenses (Fujinon, Hexanon) and I'm pretty sure so will the Chinese in 20 years time, given half the change.

Bobby
PS--When it comes to digital cameras, you don't think Canon and Nikon have a similar psychological edge?

Probabely, I just don't think there is no cause behind it, that is inherently Japanese. You seem to think there is.

Jaap Jan

 

[naaldvoerder]

Oh, oh, stereotypes - aren't they just so damned stupid!

Yes, they are ..... and sometimes very damaging.

Jaap Jan

 

[BobbyR]

Hmmm...there are folks I know of who would say these same "characteristics" are very Germanic....

Oh, oh, stereotypes - aren't they just so damned stupid!

Until you are raised in a group of stubborn Germans, you do not know just how accurate they can be.
Now you get a group of stubborn Germans, Poles and Bohemians, I grew up with all three, together, AND they do not agree, well--it ain't war but there is enough arm waving and spittel to cool the room and wash the floor.
Bobby

 

[HerrBremerhaven]

Since I am German, I am not really sure what to think of some of the statements on this thread. However, I just wanted to point out that there are inferior products made in Germany too, just like any other country. I am amazed at how anyone could so easily define millions of people, either based upon geography or language . . . it defies logic.

 

[copake_ham]

Since I am German, I am not really sure what to think of some of the statements on this thread. However, I just wanted to point out that there are inferior products made in Germany too, just like any other country. I am amazed at how anyone could so easily define millions of people, either based upon geography or language . . . it defies logic.

I agree, wholeheartedly.

I am a number of generations removed, and only partially of German extraction. However, I work for a German firm in NYC and I well-know that the kind of sentiments expressed in this thread are abhorrent to modern Germans.

Oh, and BTW, at work, our German-made IT systems really suck! But I do love my 330Ci!

 

[BobbyR]

I try to learn all I can
Aaah, that system. That system didn't prevent the Japanese to create the Katana, which I am told (I am not remotely an expert), was/is a sword that in it's characteristics was without peer in Germany, Spain , France or anywhere else in Europe, a sheer metallurgical marvel. Some Japanese exceptional blacksmith must have ignored the "system" there, you think???

Now that you bring that up, there was a show on cable just a week or so ago, about the samurai sword and how it is made; without going into the details of why it is better, even when a modern sword was made similarily as effective, in killing power anyway; it takes a life-time to be able to become a master Japanese samurai sword maker, and each "student" goes through decades of being trained to do it exactly as told.
There is no "new and improved" method.
There is an extra step, not used by European blacksmiths, that make it unique, and it must be done the same way EVERY time.
You do it the proper way, or you are out.
The expert blacksmith who tried to create a "modern" equivalent of the samurai sword, said without his modern equiptment, he could do nothing. He admitted he could not even read the color of metal which was/is a standard method still used by many US blacksmith to this day.
You cannot learn to read the color of metal by reading a book.

I always get like that when a complete country of people is deemed inapt or incapabeble of achiving something. I was under the impression the Japanese already made exceptional lenses (Fujinon, Hexanon) and I'm pretty sure so will the Chinese in 20 years time, given half the change.

This is because you have preconceived notions of what is being said.
I never said Japanese could not produce top line lenses, but there is no Japanese company, ( Canon has been and as far as I have recently read, still considered the top lenses maker in Japan,) that has instant respect, where excellance is expected, that one gets when one speaks of a Leica or Zeiss lens.(This is also the reason that when a lemon is produced by either, critics will cut it no slack)

Bobby
PS--Special order lenses from Nikon, I do not know if Canon has any, are as close to German style production as any Japanese company gets. Because they are special order, they most likely get the same attention that any German top lens would also get, and a price that is at least equal.
Zeiss also has special order lenses, but I imagine their prices are breath taking.

 

[Michel Hardy-Vallée]

Guys, how about you take the flame war based on stereotypes elsewhere? I'm sure the Germans and the Japanese will do fine without your superior insights on their putative qualities and defects.