Funny thing happening to xtol

Frank53 · Oct 20, 2020

I’m using xtol replenished for all my film developping. I have a 2ltr bottle working solution, a few 1ltr bottles waiting to be used and 10 small bottles to replenish the working solution for each film I develop. All bottles(brown glass) completely filled. I do one or two films per week, sometimes more.
Yesterday I noticed that all bottles except the working solution had a kind of white flakes, looking like cotton wool in the solution.
Anybody had this?
Could it be a temperature thing?
The working solution is at a constant temperature of 24 degrees celcius, while the rest is on room temperature. My darkroom is only heated when I’m using it and this time of the year it’s 15 degrees or so.
Regards,
Frank

Donald Qualls · Oct 20, 2020

My darkroom runs 15C most of the time (it gets more than its share of air conditioning), and I haven't seen anything like this in my Xtol, either working solution or replenisher.

Mold? Phenidone and ascorbate certainly could be food for fungi...

Frank53 · Oct 20, 2020

Mold? Did not think of that. Will filter it and see what it looks like. Was thinking of filtering it and than developing a test film to see if still works.
Question is why didn’t it happen to the working solution and am I the only one?
Regards,
Frank

bdial · Oct 20, 2020

I have had occasional problems with Xtol and some of my other chemistry growing things. Your picture looks similar.

MattKing · Oct 20, 2020

I think it may be gelatin. I sometimes have these appear and they don't filter out using a re-usable coffee filter because they slip right through the filter.

Anon Ymous · Oct 20, 2020

MattKing said:
I think it may be gelatin. I sometimes have these appear and they don't filter out using a re-usable coffee filter because they slip right through the filter.

This is what I first thought, but Frank said this only happens in the stock solution, not the working solution. For the record, paper coffee filters will likely work well, that's what I used to clean the gelatinous stuff from my Xtol working solution.

PFGS · Oct 20, 2020

My stock solution (stored in similar 250ml amber glass bottles) has identical looking floaties in all six remaining bottles, though not near so much of the stuff as in that photo. It was mixed with distilled water Sept. 10, bottles filled with no air gap and tightly sealed, and since stored in ordinary room temps. I strongly suspect I've replenished with the same a couple times, no effect so far. But I think I'll filter it to be safe.

MattKing · Oct 20, 2020

Anon Ymous said:
Frank said this only happens in the stock solution

Oops - mis-read that.

Вormental_old · Oct 20, 2020

I would do absolutely nothing until the image quality is affected. I recently ruined my working batch by prematurely "fixing" an imaginary problem as discussed in this thread.

PFGS · Oct 20, 2020

Вormental said:
I would do absolutely nothing until the image quality is affected. I recently ruined my working batch by prematurely "fixing" an imaginary problem as discussed in this thread.

But you filtered partially mixed Xtol, yes? Do we think it's safe to filter the working batch at least?

Вormental_old · Oct 20, 2020

My understanding of OP's problem is that he's not looking at the working batch, his replenisher developed these "clouds". In my case it was different (floaters right after mixing) but I think it changes little: I wouldn't try to filter anything unless the image quality is affected, and even in that case I'd just fix a fresh batch.

MattKing · Oct 20, 2020

PFGS said:
But you filtered partially mixed Xtol, yes? Do we think it's safe to filter the working batch at least?

Bormental filtered partially mixed X-Tol.
Frank53 (the OP) is seeing problems with unused replenisher.
I and others do filter our working batch regularly.

Frank53 · Oct 20, 2020

Ok, thanks a lot for your answers. I just filtered it and it came out clear with some white stuff in the filter. Cannot really see what it is. Later this week I will test it before I use it for replenishing. To be safe I ordered some new xtol.
Regards,
Frank

Athiril · Oct 20, 2020

Yes it's safe to filter working solution of Xtol, if you think it's precipitation due to cold, warm up it first.

Sirius Glass · Oct 20, 2020

I do not get those floaters. The floaters come from not thoroughly mixing Solution A before adding Solution B. Follow the instructions and use warm water for mixing.

Вormental_old · Oct 20, 2020

MattKing said:
Bormental filtered partially mixed X-Tol.
Frank53 (the OP) is seeing problems with unused replenisher.
I and others do filter our working batch regularly.

I used to do this with my 1st batch, but later I found that all byproducts just settle at the bottom of the bottle. This time around I am thinking about simply pouring 98% of the working batch out, discarding the junk at the bottom and replenishing the difference.

Frank53 · Oct 21, 2020

Sirius Glass said:
I do not get those floaters. The floaters come from not thoroughly mixing Solution A before adding Solution B. Follow the instructions and use warm water for mixing.

That’s what I do.
It’s not floating, it’s on the bottom.
Regards,
Frank

wyofilm · Oct 21, 2020

Every time I think I will give xtol a try one of these threads pops up to disabuse me of the notion.

pentaxuser · Oct 21, 2020

wyofilm said:
Every time I think I will give xtol a try one of these threads pops up to disabuse me of the notion.

As I see it that is Kodak's problem in a nutshell. It may be prepared to replace what may be faulty Xtol quickly and without fuss but the uncertainty can be very destructive to consumer confidence. I have one packet that I know is good and as the second packet was bought at the same time I may have bought before the Xtol problem arose so I am safe . However it is beginning to cause me to review my continued use in the future

The problem with developer is that you get one chance and one only to develop film. If film is ruined because of the developer then there is no second chance

pentaxuser

Вormental_old · Oct 21, 2020

wyofilm said:
Every time I think I will give xtol a try one of these threads pops up to disabuse me of the notion.

That's because people use it outside of its "operating envelope". Generally speaking, replenishing in home environment is a BAD IDEA. We're not supposed to be storing replenisher for a long time, but we do. We are supposed to be monitoring our process with control strips, but we don't. We should be putting a consistent volume through it, but not all of us have. But hey, it's fun and the results (when it works) are fantastic.

But none of that replenishment nonsense makes Xtol any worse or less convenient for one-shot use than, say, D76. Go bulletproof route: mix yourself 5L, don't bother with dilution at first, develop a few rolls using full-strength stock solution and you will love it.

MattKing · Oct 21, 2020

Вormental said:
Go bulletproof route: mix yourself 5L, don't bother with dilution at first, develop a few rolls using full-strength stock solution and you will love it.

I would say the same for using it diluted 1 + 1 - and I am a big proponent for replenished X-Tol.

Born2Late · Oct 21, 2020

Frank53 said:
I’m using xtol replenished for all my film developping. I have a 2ltr bottle working solution, a few 1ltr bottles waiting to be used and 10 small bottles to replenish the working solution for each film I develop. All bottles(brown glass) completely filled. I do one or two films per week, sometimes more.
Yesterday I noticed that all bottles except the working solution had a kind of white flakes, looking like cotton wool in the solution.
Anybody had this?
Could it be a temperature thing?
The working solution is at a constant temperature of 24 degrees celcius, while the rest is on room temperature. My darkroom is only heated when I’m using it and this time of the year it’s 15 degrees or so.
Regards,
Frank

I use all of my XTOL as one shot. My XTOL always does what you are experiencing a couple of weeks after mixing. When it does I simply filter it and the problem never returns.

mshchem · Oct 21, 2020

There's so much sulfite in XTOL, that unless you use purified water,i.e. distilled etc. you run the risk, especially at the low temperatures of the solution becoming so saturated stuff just drops out of solution. I have very hard water, dissolved calcium carbonate, I have a water softener that helps with washing machine, ion exchange substitutes sodium ions for calcium. So now the miraculous soft water is loaded with sodium carbonate. Neither my city hard water, or my whole house softened water is suitable for XTOL, works great for washing.
I am in the process of installing my 2nd RO system, this one is going in my darkroom so I don't need to carry water from upstairs to the lower level. In my old house I had the system in my utility room and I ran a line to my darkroom, kitchen, refrigerator and master bath.

I'm installing a 9 gallon tank, most are around 4 gallon, in my darkroom so I will be set. I have a 5 stage setup, costs about 250 usd to buy and about 50 bucks a year for service filters.
I store my XTOL for 1 shot in 125, 250, 500, and 1000mL Nalgene HDPE bottles it doesn't fall out of solution in the very cool winters.

mshchem · Oct 21, 2020

PS the RO systems remove iron . This puts to rest the risk of the "sudden death" that's really some iron reaction. Of course the smart thing would be to order a bottle of Rodinal and DD-X and to hell with all this. I like to make things difficult.

wyofilm · Oct 21, 2020

mshchem said:
Rodinal and DD-X

The two developers I use!

I'm waiting for you to open your lab/darkroom for public tours. I would buy a ticket.

Funny thing happening to xtol

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