Fujifilm 400

Huss · Apr 2, 2023

Ok, I looked up my order history with freestylephoto (site sponsor!)

August 8, 2019. So not even three years ago.

I bought Fuji Superia 400 3 pack 36 for $12.99
I bought Kodak ProImage 100 5 pack 36 for $22.49.
3 pack Lomo 400 120 for $18.90

Fuji is now $30.
Kodak is now $49
Lomo is now $35

pentaxuser · Apr 3, 2023

Huss said:
Ok, I looked up my order history with freestylephoto (site sponsor!)

August 8, 2019. So not even three years ago.

I bought Fuji Superia 400 3 pack 36 for $12.99
I bought Kodak ProImage 100 5 pack 36 for $22.49.
3 pack Lomo 400 120 for $18.90

Fuji is now $30.
Kodak is now $49
Lomo is now $35

That's quite a jump So why did matters not continue as they were in 2019? Covid or Covid plus other causes that were simply not there in 2019?

pentaxuser

BradS · Apr 3, 2023

pentaxuser said:
That's quite a jump So why did matters not continue as they were in 2019? Covid or Covid plus other causes that were simply not there in 2019?

pentaxuser

Supply and Demand - Econ. 101. During the pademic, supply was reduced but consumers continued to demand product (demand stayed constant or increased) so, prices increased. After the pandeminc, supply may or may not be as constrained but prices are still high and demand is constant or increasing. So prices must go higher. As long as consumers continue to pay the higher price (eg constant or increasing demand) there is no reason for producers to reduce the price.

Huss · Apr 3, 2023

pentaxuser said:
That's quite a jump So why did matters not continue as they were in 2019? Covid or Covid plus other causes that were simply not there in 2019?

pentaxuser

In less than three years they have all, minimum, doubled their prices..

This is for colour print film.

Huss · Apr 3, 2023

BradS said:
Supply and Demand - Econ. 101. During the pademic, supply was reduced but consumers continued to demand product (demand stayed constant or increased) so, prices increased. After the pandeminc, supply may or may not be as constrained but prices are still high and demand is constant or increasing. So prices must go higher. As long as consumers continue to pay the higher price (eg constant or increasing demand) there is no reason for producers to reduce the price.

There is a term for it now - gougeflation. All corporations are doing it, hence their record profits.

BradS · Apr 3, 2023

Huss said:
There is a term for it now - gougeflation. All corporations are doing it, hence their record profits.

Yup. Interesting time we live in.

Patrick Robert James · Apr 3, 2023

I think Kodak are going to discover the whole digital/analogue thing all over again because of their, what I would term insane, pricing models. Maybe that flew during the pandemic, but people aren't stupid, and I'd bet most film sales are to younger people who have less money than ever. It isn't like they are sinking tons of money into R&D. They are making the same film they have been making for many years. Why the huge price increases? Greed. They think they will get away with it. Meanwhile small digital cameras from the 00s are getting hip. This isn't rocket science. If hipsters stop shooting film Kodak is screwed.

What Kodak should be doing is trying to increase their customer base for long term success. Instead they have their guns pointed straight at their feet.

I keep using Kodak because they seem to be the driver of this. If Fuji were smart they would aggressively go after film sales. Not sure what they are doing these days. I haven't seen any Fuji film for sale in the US for months.

reddesert · Apr 3, 2023

The fact that Fuji film is hard to get and that Fuji suspended new orders of color film within Japan is a clue that it isn't simply greed or price gouging, that manufacturers are genuinely having difficulty making film and meeting demand. Unclear whether due to shortages of raw materials, increased cost of materials, lack of production capacity, or all of the above.

BradS · Apr 3, 2023

Patrick Robert James said:
I think Kodak are going to discover the whole digital/analogue thing all over again because of their, what I would term insane, pricing models. ...

Indeed. When we pay $10 a roll for the film and another $25 a roll for processing, how many rolls does one expose, process and print before spending engough on film and processing to pay for a digital camera and lens? Clearly, the arithmetic is simple and the conclusion is clear.

brbo · Apr 3, 2023

BradS said:
Indeed. When we pay $10 a roll for the film and another $25 a roll for processing, how many rolls does one expose, process and print before spending engough on film and processing to pay for a digital camera and lens? Clearly, the arithmetic is simple and the conclusion is clear.

Yet... here we are.

BTW, 15 years ago I was paying 4 EUR for C-41 pro film and around 4 EUR for developing and scanning. C-41 pro film is now nearing 20 EUR mark and if you are right that developing&scanning is now really 25 EUR, who has raised prices more, Alaris or labs?

Patrick Robert James · Apr 3, 2023

BradS said:
Indeed. When we pay $10 a roll for the film and another $25 a roll for processing, how many rolls does one expose, process and print before spending engough on film and processing to pay for a digital camera and lens? Clearly, the arithmetic is simple and the conclusion is clear.

Kodak is more like $16 a roll now.

You can pick up a really nice point and shoot digital for a hundy and take all the pictures you want. Ain't rocket science! Literally millions of them are out there sitting on shelves. The "new photography" is no longer about making prints but displaying online. That is why the sales of digital cameras has tanked paradoxically.

I don't shoot much color film myself so this doesn't affect me much, but if I was shooting color film all the time I would be seriously considering dumping it for digital. Shame to say that.

I predicted this 15 years ago. It is the natural trend of things really. Price goes up, less people buy making the price go up more. Lather, rinse repeat. Eventually the game is over.

Kodak is taking a growing market and dropping a grenade in it. Shame to see. Ain't the first time they did something really stupid. That is why I think Fuji has an opportunity. Or Adox, or Orwo.

Huss · Apr 3, 2023

reddesert said:
The fact that Fuji film is hard to get and that Fuji suspended new orders of color film within Japan is a clue that it isn't simply greed or price gouging, that manufacturers are genuinely having difficulty making film and meeting demand. Unclear whether due to shortages of raw materials, increased cost of materials, lack of production capacity, or all of the above.

I keep using Kodak Aerocolor IV as an easy exampled of gougeflation. Kodak is making it fresh, they are selling it to middlemen like SantaColor, Elektra, Popho who sell it as Luminar 100. After these middlemen have taken their cut (justifiable of course), this film is still cheaper than what Kodak sells all of its colour film for. Color Plus - which used to be their bargain basement film - is now more expensive than Portra 400!

Huss · Apr 3, 2023

Patrick Robert James said:
Kodak is more like $16 a roll now.

You can pick up a really nice point and shoot digital for a hundy and take all the pictures you want. Ain't rocket science! Literally millions of them are out there sitting on shelves. The "new photography" is no longer about making prints but displaying online. That is why the sales of digital cameras has tanked paradoxically.

I don't shoot much color film myself so this doesn't affect me much, but if I was shooting color film all the time I would be seriously considering dumping it for digital. Shame to say that.

I predicted this 15 years ago. It is the natural trend of things really. Price goes up, less people buy making the price go up more. Lather, rinse repeat. Eventually the game is over.

Kodak is taking a growing market and dropping a grenade in it. Shame to see. Ain't the first time they did something really stupid. That is why I think Fuji has an opportunity. Or Adox, or Orwo.

Yup, instead of looking at long term and sustainable growth of the market, Kodak is going for short term profit. Once they price colour print film at $25/roll, and wonder why the market for it has disappeared, they will claim it's because no-one shoots film anymore. And not because they short sightedly priced it out of reach.

I'm actually surprised they haven't started to sell 30 exp rolls for 36 exp prices, and claim that they are keeping prices down. Who am I kidding, they will keep raising prices and will say this will prevent even bigger raises.

brbo · Apr 3, 2023

Huss said:
I keep using Kodak Aerocolor IV as an easy exampled of gougeflation. Kodak is making it fresh, they are selling it to middlemen like SantaColor, Elektra, Popho who sell it as Luminar 100. After these middlemen have taken their cut (justifiable of course), this film is still cheaper than what Kodak sells all of its colour film for. Color Plus - which used to be their bargain basement film - is now more expensive than Portra 400!

Except that Kodak (the one that makes the film) doesn't sell you Portra or Color Plus. Alaris does. Just read Eastman Kodak financial statements to get the idea where the gougleflation comes from.

Huss · Apr 3, 2023

Three years ago Kodak Colorplus used to be $5/roll. It is now $16.50. The price has increased by over 300%.

Huss · Apr 3, 2023

brbo said:
Except that Kodak (the one that makes the film) doesn't sell you Portra or Color Plus. Alaris does. Just read Eastman Kodak financial statements to get the idea where the gougleflation comes from.

So it's Alaris. Is it Kodak or Alaris who sells Aerocolor IV to the middle men?

Huss · Apr 3, 2023

brbo · Apr 3, 2023

Huss said:
So it's Alaris. Is it Kodak or Alaris who sells Aerocolor IV to the middle men?

Eastman Kodak.

MattKing · Apr 3, 2023

Neither Eastman Kodak nor Kodak Alaris have excess capital.
And they would need excess capital to either sell product at a loss leader price, or to attain greater economies of scale by hugely increasing production.
Their costs have exploded!

miha · Apr 3, 2023

I guess no more color film for me. I used to shoot 4x5 Kodak Ektar but at 8 or 9 eur per sheet before processing with the recent increase I can't justify it any more.

pentaxuser · Apr 3, 2023

Huss said:
There is a term for it now - gougeflation. All corporations are doing it, hence their record profits.

That sounds like it's deliberate on the part of corporations and has little or nothing to do with supply /demand

pentaxuser

tom43 · Apr 9, 2023

Has anyone more news about the new Fuji 400 film? A new development or another relabeled Kodak product? Maybe Ultramax?

https://www.fujirumors.com/new-fujifilm-400-color-negative-film-listed/

rickylc · Apr 9, 2023

so much for the $5.99 price

Sirius Glass · Apr 9, 2023

rickylc said:
so much for the $5.99 price

Welcome to ~~APUG~~ Photrio!!

Agulliver · Apr 9, 2023

Where the hell are people paying $25 for C41 processing??????????

Is this some super-duper pro service with some guarantee of recompense for pro work if there's a mistake and full analogue prints? What am I missing? I don't think I could actually find a service that expensive.

Film is basically chemicals....since covid the price of lab chemicals has spiralled and availability has become very erratic. Kodak et al *need* to buy chemicals to make film and don't have much choice over when or what they buy.

I buy comparatively very small quantities of mostly quite common lab chemicals for school science labs. Even basic stuff like hydrochloric acid has doubled in price and now has a 3-5 month lead time rather than 2-3 days. Something like 2-4 dinitrophenylhydrazine used in advanced chemistry is currently almost unobtainable. Potassium dichromate, which has several school science uses and can be used to make reversal processing bleach is hard to get hold of right now. I can only imagine the film manufacturers are facing serious problems getting hold of the more exotic chemicals needed to manufacture colour film- several of which have few or no uses outside of the photographic industry.

Same problem BTW with magnetic tape. Try buying gamma ferric oxide which is the essential magnetic material for recording tape. Price has gone up by a factor of five and lead times are months.

Fujifilm 400

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