Fuji not supplying OEM film any more?

[waynecrider]

I thought Ferrania was starting production back up? Maybe someplace else?

 

[railwayman3]

OP said nothing about Freestyle. The comment was about Firstcall. Zim not sure what that is but since the OP is in the UK and I'm not is guess it is something there.

My apologies....my mistype, Firstcall is one of the biggest UK photo mail order suppliers, which I use extensively, so I should have known! The US suppliers are mentioned so often on here that they must be subliminably affecting my brain.

I don't think it alters what I was saying about rumours. Though some people seem to like rumours.

And, FWIW, no one seems to be able to reply to my query whether definitive proof is available.

 

[railwayman3]

I thought Ferrania was starting production back up? Maybe someplace else?

Ferrania's own blog suggests that they hope to be able to ship film in Q1 2014, so hopefully that will be an alternative source, whether or not they supply own-brand versions.

 

[julhu]

Going back to the start of the thread....has anyone any definitive confirmation (preferably from Fuji) that they are no longer making any private label film.

I can not give you a definitive confirmation on anything, but a major German chain of drug stores (DM) has recently (1 or 2 months ago) changed their supplier for their house brand film. It used to be "Made in USA", now it is "Made in Asia". I'm pretty sure that the Asia-version is made by Fuji, because the film cans are identical to Fujis and the catridges are identical to Rossmann's (their main competitor) house brand film which is labelled "Made in Japan". So I'm assuming Fuji is still active in the rebranding game.

 

[clayne]

One small defect there is that "Asia" is not a country.

 

[Film-Niko]

I can not give you a definitive confirmation on anything, but a major German chain of drug stores (DM) has recently (1 or 2 months ago) changed their supplier for their house brand film. It used to be "Made in USA", now it is "Made in Asia". I'm pretty sure that the Asia-version is made by Fuji, because the film cans are identical to Fujis and the catridges are identical to Rossmann's (their main competitor) house brand film which is labelled "Made in Japan". So I'm assuming Fuji is still active in the rebranding game.

Exactly.
The new dm drugstore films are made by FujiFilm now. Kodak has lost this big client.
A friend of mine told me that one of the bigger supermarket chains in the US (I think it is Target) also recently switched from Kodak to Fuji.

 

[AgX]

I thought Ferrania was starting production back up? Maybe someplace else?

That is not about Ferrania (Ferrania Technologies) but Film Ferrania. In this case that distinguation seems important.

OEM films are bought in by the chain-stores companies by the price. In this case manufacturers already cranking out a huge amount of film (in absolute terms, non-withstanding their decrease in machinery-effectivity) are still better off than a company re-starting on a low volume after years of standstill in film-making.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Look at what Ilford did before they went bankrupt.

They sold OEM film to places like Freestyle and Fine Art Photo Supply, and probably many others. While volume can be good in terms of market share, if you make little to no profit on each sale (especially since people quickly figure out they could buy FP4+ for very little money), then you quickly eat into the total profitability of the company. Every sale must count.

Now that they are a healthy and sustainable company, they don't use their own emulsions for OEM purposes anymore.

I can't say that I blame Fuji for not supplying OEM films anymore. In pure economic terms, profit is better than volume.

 

[julhu]

One small defect there is that "Asia" is not a country.

True. I was surprised to see it printed on the box. But since there is already a "Made in EU," I guess "Made in Asia" is possible, too.
Maybe Fuji doesn't want them to print "Made in Japan" on their boxes, as people would figure out easily that it is made by Fuji.

 

[railwayman3]

Look at what Ilford did before they went bankrupt.

They sold OEM film to places like Freestyle and Fine Art Photo Supply, and probably many others. While volume can be good in terms of market share, if you make little to no profit on each sale (especially since people quickly figure out they could buy FP4+ for very little money), then you quickly eat into the total profitability of the company. Every sale must count.

Now that they are a healthy and sustainable company, they don't use their own emulsions for OEM purposes anymore.

I can't say that I blame Fuji for not supplying OEM films anymore. In pure economic terms, profit is better than volume.

I agree with your thinking. OTOH, many non-photographic companies supply their own "quality" branded products and also manufacture similar lower-priced "own-brand" products, often to be sold in the same shops....thereby selling to two different types of customer. Though maybe not as applicable now in the restricted market for any photographic film.

Although, IIRC correctly, Ilford have said that while they don't use the "Ilford" emulsions for other labels, they certainly manufacture their Kentmere films with different emulsions to tap into different markets.

(And we still have no confirmation that Fuji is "not supplying OEM films anymore"!!!)

 

[AgX]

One small defect there is that "Asia" is not a country.

What about this designation of origin on Hong-Kong based Haking cameras?

"Empire Made"

 

[railwayman3]

What about this designation of origin on Hong-Kong based Haking cameras?

"Empire Made"

Those were the days!

 

[cmacd123]

In the 1950 era some Hong kong stuff was labelled "Made in the British empire" or "British made" or "Made in British crown colony" when they could get away with it.

Besides the Americans, I am not sure how many countries insist on country of origin being marked on products. I know here the dealer can just have the goods marked with "Imported BY..." (but of course if they give a location it must be factual)

To get back to the Gist of the thread, I am wondering how many retailers are ordering ENOUGH film to make private label products viable? The minimums are likely still in the Thousands of rolls, with a take or pay clause if the retailer does not order the full quantity of the contract.

 

[cmacd123]

Maybe the same company that makes the Shantou ERA 100 b&w film. I love that stuff. I shoot a load of it.

Anything is possible. The ERA film I have used came in a Clear plastic container that looked like a copy of a Fuji can made by someone who had only seen a photo of one. All the dimensions are different! the Era also came in a "snap Cap" cassette rather than a crimped cassette. I will agree that it seemed to be an excellent film and I am sorry that I have not seen any for sale latly, and that the vendor who last sold me some claimed that it was no longer made.

As far as the Sunny, I did get a chance to compare the can that the Sunny came in to a can that some Arista Colour, Known ot be made by Ferannia came in. Other than the markings being slightly less distinct that were almost identical. The only substantive difference I could see what the Sunny Can did not have a mould number on the inside of the Lid. Imnation did have a plant in the US as well as in Italy for COnveting film for sale, and perhaps both had tooling to make the cans, so one set of tooling may be now in China. A slightly different mix of Polyethylene could account for the slightly less sharp markings on the Sunny film can. The lids did interchange.

 

[clayne]

All we need to do is see the rebate of said film we're discussing here. That will point to who it is.

 

[AgX]

You can expose any name you like onto the rebate. And typography would only be a very weak hint.

 

[clayne]

You can expose any name you like onto the rebate. And typography would only be a very weak hint.

It gave away Arista Premium and Legacy Pro very easily. I'm not interested in the name. I'm interested in the font characteristics. They don't usually go out of their way to obscure this.

 

[MartinP]

Those were the days!

Empire Made would mean any part of the Empire outside of the British Isles. From Australia to Kenya to India to Canada etcetera, depending on the date of the camera and the different national independence dates and trade agreements and so on.

Clearly we are not talking about the Roman Empire, or that of Genghis Khan - which may have been larger in land-area but was a bit short of cameras.

 

[cmacd123]

I'm not interested in the name. I'm interested in the font characteristics. They don't usually go out of their way to obscure this.

Of course, AGFA film packing machinery was sold by AFGA to Harmon/Ilford and after AGFA photo closed down Maco got one set, and their was possibly another one in the wild. Both original Agfa film and Ilford film use similar typography. In fact I believe the PREVIOUS generation of both also had matching typefaces as Agfa supplied Ilfords PREVIOUS packing line.

Not to say that someone doing private label today may follow the lead of others and have every step done by various contractors. I am sure if you called up Simon Galley and said you had a master roll of film that you wanted packaged, and could come to terms on the cost and so forth. he might be able to arrange to fit it into the schedule. The Edge printing, spools and end caps of the finished product would look quite similar to Ilford's own products, but of course the deal would have to guarantee that it was clear the product was not from Moberly. Maco no doubt would be even more willing to make such a deal. And I suspect that in China there are folks who would even be happy to build machinery to produce you order. (just look at the Lomography 110 film for example)

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

Excellent post, Charles , thank you.

Umut