Fuji Hunt Film X-Press Kit + Jobo CPE2 - Qs

[Iridium]

I 've got the Fuji C-41 kit to process my 120 rolls in a Jobo CPE2 processor with 1520 tank on the magnet drive. I've tried to read & watch almost everything on the net, but still confusing about first the Fuji/Jobo instructions & then the capacity of the chemicals.

Regarding the water wash steps:

1. According to the provided Fuji instructions/Jobo CPE full instructions, the first step is Preheating for 5 min, while according to many users (or other manufacturers) Pre-rinse/soaking is recommended. Should I stick to the instructions?

2. The recommended method for the rinse/wash step after Bleach & Fixer is:
2a. Fuji - "...Fill tank with fresh water & then agitate vigorously for about 2 sec & drain for about 10 sec. Repeat full cycle (3:30min)" or "...Use running water wash with the cover removed from the tank".
2b. Jobo - "...With all rinses (except the pre-rinse), change the rinse water at 30-second intervals for the duration of the rinse. Namely, 7x 0:30 for 3:30min.
Which of them do you recommend or you follow?

Regarding the capacity of the 5L chemicals:

According to Fuji, it's total 32 rolls of 120 format & ISO400. However, I plan to use 500ml batches and 90% of my 120 rolls are ISO400. The 1520 tank requires 240ml of the liquid. I'll develop 1 or 2 rolls each time & after the whole process I'll pour back the chemicals to their containers. Can I develop 6 rolls of ISO400 this way per batch of 500ml? If so, the final capacity will be around 60 rolls & not 32. Is it possible?

Thanx in advance!

 

[koraks]

Should I stick to the instructions?

In general, that's always a good idea. When it comes to prewashing, opinions are divided. I do it with 120 film in a 1520 tank because otherwise I get surge marks along the edges of the film. So personally, I would recommend it. Other people might not. Try what works best for you; my main advice is to watch carefully what happens in even density areas (skies etc.) along the edges of the film.

Which of them do you recommend or you follow?

Doesn't matter. Wash well after fixing. I usually do 4-5 washes of 1 minute each on Jobo rotation.
A brief rinse (doesn't matter how you do it) after bleach and before fixer will help your fixer to survive longer.

Can I develop 6 rolls of ISO400 this way per batch of 500ml?

I've done 6 rolls/500ml. (FUJI Hunt; not X-press but likely similar) on occasion and never noticed any problems. I usually stick to 6 rolls/liter for the developer (one shot), though.
Bleach can be reused quite a number of times and when it gets slow, you can even replenish it by adding some potassium bromide (preferably ammonium bromide, but that's kind of nasty + a lot difficult to find).
For the fixer, I'd stick to about the same capacity as the developer. It has a finite capacity.

I'll pour back the chemicals to their containers

Make sure the developer container is always entirely full. Decant into smaller (glass, PE) bottles if necessary. Developer doesn't like to be exposed to oxygen for prolonged periods of time.

 

[brbo]

I 've got the Fuji C-41 kit to process my 120 rolls in a Jobo CPE2 processor with 1520 tank on the magnet drive. I've tried to read & watch almost everything on the net, but still confusing about first the Fuji/Jobo instructions & then the capacity of the chemicals.

Regarding the water wash steps:

1. According to the provided Fuji instructions/Jobo CPE full instructions, the first step is Preheating for 5 min, while according to many users (or other manufacturers) Pre-rinse/soaking is recommended. Should I stick to the instructions?

I preheat with water. I feel it helps with more even development.

2. The recommended method for the rinse/wash step after Bleach & Fixer is:
2a. Fuji - "...Fill tank with fresh water & then agitate vigorously for about 2 sec & drain for about 10 sec. Repeat full cycle (3:30min)" or "...Use running water wash with the cover removed from the tank".
2b. Jobo - "...With all rinses (except the pre-rinse), change the rinse water at 30-second intervals for the duration of the rinse. Namely, 7x 0:30 for 3:30min.
Which of them do you recommend or you follow?

I do 2b, because it's easier.

According to Fuji, it's total 32 rolls of 120 format & ISO400. However, I plan to use 500ml batches and 90% of my 120 rolls are ISO400. The 1520 tank requires 240ml of the liquid. I'll develop 1 or 2 rolls each time & after the whole process I'll pour back the chemicals to their containers. Can I develop 6 rolls of ISO400 this way per batch of 500ml? If so, the final capacity will be around 60 rolls & not 32. Is it possible?

It is possible. You are overusing the developer, though. Fuji's X-Press instructions say you have to extend developing time from 3:15 to 3:20 if you used 5L to develop 8 rolls of ISO 400 120 rolls. You are using 0.5L for 2 rolls. How much do you need to extend the time for the second run? Well, Fuji doesn't say... Fuji does say that if you need professional quality, you should not reuse the developer.

You will get pictures on your film even if you developed 15 rolls with 500ml of developer, you only need to see if you can work with them. Do they print/scan well enough?

I used to reuse the developer, then used it one-shot and I'm now experimenting with self-replenishment with my current X-Press 5L kit, but if I really wanted the best, I'd just use the developer one-shot.

 

[Iridium]

I do it with 120 film in a 1520 tank because otherwise I get surge marks along the edges of the film.

I read that the "surge marks" occur "....at sprocket holes on 35mm film in which agitation is too high" & I am just wondering how is it possible that these marks may occur due to preheating of the tank (rotating tank without water inside) & it doesn't happen during the developer flow? Of course @koraks , I take into account your words & I'll check the film meticulously after the development. Thanx a lot for your recommendations.

@koraks & @brbo the idea of developing 6-8 rolls of 120 in a 500ml batch isn't mine. I read it on https://kevinthephotographer.wordpress.com/2018/07/04/explaining-the-fuji-hunt-c41-instructions/ & it sounds good for a tank like 1520 or 4312 which both need only 240/250 ml of liquid.

I choose to mix 500ml of the chemicals at a time, and usually develop between 6 and 8 films using that 500ml batch, with a development time of 3’15”. This applies regardless of whether the films are 120, 35mm * 24, or 35mm * 36 exposures. The C41 films I use are rated between ISO100 and 400 and I don’t distinguish between them. I don’t use any faster C41 films.

There is nothing very scientific about whether I mix new chemicals after six films or eight; if I have developed 6 films but it was some time since the batch was first mixed then I will probably mix a new batch, but if I have 8 films ready to develop in a short space of time, then I could do eight from one batch.

One-shot developer means 5L for just 20 120-films only regardless of ISO, it sounds extremely waste of money. As the Jobo 1501 reel can get 2 rolls of 120 film (which according to Jobo ensures even development of both rolls), does this change anything in the whole process of development?

@brbo thanx also for your insight.

 

[brbo]

One-shot developer means 5L for just 20 120-films only regardless of ISO, it sounds extremely waste of money.

That would be about 40 rolls as you need 240ml for two rolls in 1500 series tank.

Developing two films with such small amount of developer might require a bit longer developing time than 3:15, but most of us develop for 3:15. Most of us also don't monitor our processing with control strips, but I know our @Steven Lee does and you can ask him if he has first hand experience with Fuji Hunt C-41 X-Press kit or what his findings regarding temperature/time adjustment (if at all) are needed when processing one-shot with minimum developer quantities...

 

[Fatih Ayoglu]

I have divided Fuji a press developer in 500ml bottles, and frozen them. They are each good for 6-8 rolls. If you process in 1 day, 8 rolls, if you develop over a week maybe 6-7 rolls.

PS I’ve just seen somebody has mentioned Kevin’s post. Yes I follow that

 

[brbo]

I have divided Fuji a press developer in 500ml bottles, and frozen them. They are each good for 6-8 rolls. If you process in 1 day, 8 rolls, if you develop over a week maybe 6-7 rolls.

How do you know that? What is "good"? How much do you need to extend the time for subsequent runs for them all to remain within specs?

 

[Fatih Ayoglu]

Not really scientifically but when I compare the same brand film under same light conditions, if they print with same filter settings, same aperture and time, they are all good for me. I’m not running a commercial lab and eventually what’s important for me is if I can print them with ease and there is no colour cast.

 

[Steven Lee]

You have several excellent answers already, let me try and add more color below.

1. According to the provided Fuji instructions/Jobo CPE full instructions, the first step is Preheating for 5 min, while according to many users (or other manufacturers) Pre-rinse/soaking is recommended. Should I stick to the instructions?

Basically you need the developer to be 37.8C inside the tank during the development. These are just two common methods of achieving that. I have tried both, successfully. I will say that wet presoaking is easier, because preheating happens faster and you are less dependent on the ambient temperature. Dry pre-heating takes longer in a colder room.

There's a 3rd option, which is to skip the pre-heating step entirely. This requires the starting temperature of a developer to be higher. How much higher? That you would need to determine experimentally, and it's laborious because it will depend on the ambient temperature, size of the tank, and how many rolls are inside. But it can also be done, with excellent results.

2. The recommended method for the rinse/wash step after Bleach & Fixer is:
2a. Fuji - "...Fill tank with fresh water & then agitate vigorously for about 2 sec & drain for about 10 sec. Repeat full cycle (3:30min)" or "...Use running water wash with the cover removed from the tank".
2b. Jobo - "...With all rinses (except the pre-rinse), change the rinse water at 30-second intervals for the duration of the rinse. Namely, 7x 0:30 for 3:30min.
Which of them do you recommend or you follow?

I do the latter.

Regarding the capacity of the 5L chemicals:

According to Fuji, it's total 32 rolls of 120 format & ISO400. However, I plan to use 500ml batches and 90% of my 120 rolls are ISO400. The 1520 tank requires 240ml of the liquid. I'll develop 1 or 2 rolls each time & after the whole process I'll pour back the chemicals to their containers. Can I develop 6 rolls of ISO400 this way per batch of 500ml? If so, the final capacity will be around 60 rolls & not 32. Is it possible?

This is where my advice may be a bit controversial. I continue to stick to Kodak instructions from the Z-131, where they say to never reuse developer without replenishment. I always develop 4 rolls in 500ml using the 1540 tank, one-shot, i.e. I discard the developer. This way I can process 40 rolls in 5L of chemistry without violating Kodak's instructions. My densitometer readings are within control limits.

 

[PolyFilmLabs]

May not be relevant - but depending on your volumes I'd be seriously considering CN16L chemistry. It's not that much more expensive to then get like 30L.

It's also quite tolerant of cross contamination as that's how the roller transport mechanisms work, no rinse step in between and some tanks deliberately have overflows into other tanks (for FP232B at least).

We run an FP232B in the summer and use the chemistry in a JOBO in the winter and capacity wise if we carefully measure etc the volumes are in the region of 11/Ltr (135 36exp) or 55 for 5L.

Cost is like 50p/roll using that chemistry (just for the chemicals etc).

 

[Iridium]

Thanx all for your help. I take into account your experiences.
As long as Fuji recommends to reuse the developer, I intend to mix 500ml of developer (same with all chemicals) each time, use it in 3 days in a row to process each time/day 2 rolls of 120 400ISO in a 4312 Jobo tank which needs 250ml @3:15min. That way I get 6 rolls per cycle of 500ml of chemicals. Then a new batch of 500ml of chemicals for the next set of 6 rolls. I hope it'll work safely. I let you know after the first cycle.

 

[koraks]

@Iridium if you find that in the process you described the drift between the 1st + 2nd and the 5th + 6th roll is unacceptable, you can still consider a replenishment regime where you replace a part of the working stock developer with fresh developer. This will give more constant results.

 

[Iridium]

@Iridium if you find that in the process you described the drift between the 1st + 2nd and the 5th + 6th roll is unacceptable, you can still consider a replenishment regime where you replace a part of the working stock developer with fresh developer. This will give more constant results.

@koraks thanx for your recommendation. I also read your very informative article, but I still feel confused.

As far as I understand, the idea of making solution of 500ml of developer and use it in 3 cycles of 250ml, 2 rolls/cycle/day will be tricky for the last cycle? Mixing the first used 250ml with the other fresh 250ml in the bottle isn't a way of replenishment for the next two cycles? or fresh 250 for 1st cycle, fresh 250 for 2nd & then mixed both used for the 3rd cycle?

When you say to replace a part of the working dev with fresh, how much do you mean?

And my last question, as you recommend pre-wash, for how long should I leave the water in the tank?

 

[Fatih Ayoglu]

Per Fuji manual, a pre wash is recommended. That will also heat the tank, reels and the film so it keeps the solution in the tank for longer. I usually do a 6 min pre wash to warm everyhing.

 

[brbo]

@koraks thanx for your recommendation. I also read your very informative article, but I still feel confused.

As far as I understand, the idea of making solution of 500ml of developer and use it in 3 cycles of 250ml, 2 rolls/cycle/day will be tricky for the last cycle?

If you care about staying within specs, even 2nd cycle will be tricky as there is no official information from Fuji on how much to extend the development time. Of course, if you only scan and you only care about getting images on film, it's all pretty irrelevant. Start by extending processing time on next runs by about 4% for every 36exp roll you processed with the developer (if you are working with 500ml) or 2% if you are working with 1L and see how that goes (compare rolls from first batch to those from last batch).

Per Fuji manual, a pre wash is recommended. That will also heat the tank, reels and the film so it keeps the solution in the tank for longer. I usually do a 6 min pre wash to warm everyhing.

Actually, Fuji X-Press C-41 kit manual only states mandatory preheating for drum processing (which as far as I understand does not necessarily mean that preheating must be done with water bath).