Fuji freezer film rumour

GabrielC · Mar 19, 2024

Hello everyone,

There is welcome news of new fuji (made in Japan) film in Japanese shelves, as shown in the following video :

However, this news is followed by many commentators saying that Fuji did not restart mass production of film, but instead are only selling film cut from old master rolls stored in huge freezers.
I reckon that this rumor is a long-standing one, but are there any truth to it ?

Personally, I wonder if the global demand of Instax and the lack of supply (apparently sufficient to force Fuji to increase its industrial capacity) would be an ideal culprit. If (and that's a big if) coating lines are shared between Instax and film, Fuji couldn't really handle both at the same time.
Furthermore, why would Fuji claim a lack of raw material to be the culprit if it was really freezer film ? Logistically speaking, a freezer roll would be available anytime, and there is no explanation as to why they stopped producing it for some time before supplying it again. The freezer film doesn't make sense in this context.

The only major arguments I see for this rumor is :
1. The discontinuation of Pro 400H (which was apparently popular), meaning that the freezer master rolls were depleted following this rumor ?
2. Apparent Japanese insiders that purport it is indeed freezer film (no real and definite proof)
3. Acros being made at Ilford and not Fuji (meaning that they don't have any remaining capacity for film

What do you think about this rumor ? Any definite proof ?

Thank you,
Gabriel

armadsen · Mar 19, 2024

I've never seen any definite proof. The closest to that is that some Fuji rep did say they had "mothballed" their film production lines at the beginning of the pandemic, and there was an implication that they still hadn't restarted them at the time of the statement (end of 2021). But that was more than 2 years ago, and while it's never been in abundant supply, I've been able to periodically buy Provia and Velvia throughout that time.

Bellamy Hunt (Japan Camera Hunter) has said multiple times that Fuji is not actually producing film anymore, and he's said it as if it were definite, 100% unquestionable fact. But he hasn't said anything about how he knows that, and he's (understandably, IMO) very bitter towards Fujifilm right now because they basically killed his Fugu film project. So, I take what he's saying with a grain of salt, or at least the certainty with which he says it.

Fuji could very easily end all this speculation by releasing a statement, and it seems like there would be no reason not to do that unless they were indeed selling old frozen stock with no plans to coat new stock in the future. They'd possibly not want to confirm that until they've sold through all the frozen stock? But also, they're Japanese and have never been very forthcoming with information like that.

To sum up: I tend to believe the rumor that they're just selling frozen stock, but I don't think anyone who's talking knows for sure.

koraks · Mar 19, 2024

GabrielC said:
If (and that's a big if) coating lines are shared between Instax and film, Fuji couldn't really handle both at the same time.

It depends on the capacity requirements, batch sizes, switching times between products etc. This is really impossible to tell from the outside.

GabrielC said:
Logistically speaking, a freezer roll would be available anytime

It'll also cost money as long as it's in storage.

GabrielC said:
3. Acros being made at Ilford and not Fuji (meaning that they don't have any remaining capacity for film

Acros has been made by Ilford for a long time. Why this was done, I don't know, but I doubt it had anything to do with a lack of capacity at Fuji Japan. Keep in mind that Fuji were producing massive amounts of film up to ca. 2002 when the film market plummeted. At that point they had ginormous overcapacity, just like the other film manufacturers. Within no-time, they started dismantling that capacity. If they actually have a film coating capacity bottleneck at this moment (which I severely doubt, even with the success of Instax), it's of recent date and emerged years and years after the decision to have Harman/Ilford coat Acros.

GabrielC said:
What do you think about this rumor ?

I think it's nonsense, but regardless what I think or the people who rumor about it, the only thing that makes sense is to go to Japan, become friends with some people who work at the plant and figure out what's going on. Lacking that, it's of very little use to speculate. You never figure out exactly what's going on in there (for one thing, it likely changes all the time, too) and even if you do, it doesn't change anything.

bfilm · Mar 19, 2024

Fujifilm has been a real mystery in film in recent years. I wish we did have a better understanding of the situation. I would feel better if the supply of Provia (and Velvia) was more consistent. The periodic availability seems to sell out very quickly.

A few years ago, I remember someone in leadership at Fujifilm saying that they are strongly committed to film and will be the last ones making film. I hope they still have this feeling and commitment.

I doubt one would be able to get this information, but maybe another aspect of research would be to see if it is possible to learn how often Daicel in Japan is supplying Fujifilm with cellulose acetate film base.

Prest_400 · Mar 19, 2024

After watching the videos, I was curious and went to Maps as I didn't know how they actually have facilities. Not much to say, but it was interesting to see that they have diverse facilities in the same region but who knows how the film production is distributed. Unlike Kodak who consolidated in a (single?) facility at Rochester; Fuji have at least a couple sites.

History | Fujifilm [Japan]

Fujifilm is helping make the world a better, healthier, and more interesting place. Learn more about our History.

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Kanagawa Factory Ashigara
Kanagawa Factory Odawara Site

Ashigara site is the one receiving the latest round of INSTAX investment. It also is interesting, because there is some demolition work at the North part of the site. I haven't gone as to compare earlier aerial photos. This is from Bing Maps, dated 2024 -- Google Maps has a 3D model of the site with a much emptier lot and cleared demolition work, as the Northernmost structures are gone.

Edit:

Another recent video echoing the restarting message. I have pronounced myself often about the topic of Fuji availability and could buy a bit of Provia in 120 fresh that has been driping to an European distributor. But it's still very ambiguous and we should be seeing C41 being widely available again as a signal of extensive production.

mshchem · Mar 19, 2024

I would be shocked if Fuji was freezing film, especially cheapo consumer color negative film. Just not how, to run a business. Inventory is a sin, especially in Japan.

Arcadia4 · Mar 19, 2024

Well cool stored maybe, but not frozen, too much risk in that. Its likely there is a bit of a buffer between coating and conversion, most film manufactures have rolls waiting conversion (and as final product) but its at a storage cost/risk and cash flow, which is why its unlikely its months of stock. The trade off might be some efficiency by running coating batches depending how often they have to switch product on the line, especially if that is running instax most of the time. I think ilford have said for comparison they only coat 1-2 days a week.

Also despite some obvious cost efficiencies fujifilm have generally kept separate packaging (and some products) for the japan market.

brbo · Mar 20, 2024

Prest_400 said:
Another recent video echoing the restarting message.

If Fuji really restarted film production only now, how was it possible for me to buy FujiColor 100 or Superia Premium 400 with dates ranging from 2023 to 2025 in the past years? I still have FujiColor 100 dated 2025/07 in my freezer.

All this seems like a pretty clueless youtuber making a trip to Japan and "discovering" Fuji film. Film that was available in small quantites for local market all this time, even imported into EU through 3rd party resellers. Fotoimpex occasionaly gets C100 and Premium 400 and sells it all within hours.

A Fuji restart would look like this:

and not like this:

But, the real news from youtube experts on everything film is that there is obviously a huge shortage of Instax film in Japan. I would expect a massive quantities of Instax is sold in Japan. If Fuji is upgrading existing coating or packaging facilities for Instax this could mean a temporary disruption in production that would first show in domestic market. One can hope that if this is indeed the case that they are also upgrading of freeing some capacities for "traditional" film production.

koraks · Mar 20, 2024

brbo said:
how was it possible for me to buy FujiColor 100 or Superia Premium 400 with dates ranging from 2023 to 2025 in the past years?

Is/was the film on those taped or clipped to the spindle within the cassette?

Agulliver · Mar 20, 2024

Fuji, being a Japanese company, isn't as forthcoming about it's operations as Kodak or Harman. That's mostly down to Japanese business culture. But it's also very much Fuji's way of doing things. So when they say nothing, or even when they do make an announcement, people try to fill in the gaps with speculation.

The "Fuji is freezing film and hasn't manufactured any for years" rumour has been doing the rounds for about twenty years now. I really can't see that we are still getting stuff cut from a master roll made twenty years ago. Fuji sold off literally tonnes of consumer C41 film under other names, most notably Agfa Photo Vista Plus which ran out something like 7 years ago. There's no evidence of some mass freezing/cooling/storing of film or master rolls. It wouldn't make any business sense. Far better sense with that much excess inventory to cut losses and sell it cheaply so it's *not* stored for years before being sold.

It seems more feasible that Fuji may only manufacture photo film (other than Instax) infrequently and then sell it over a period of a year or two. And we do know they've been hit more than others by inability to conquer supply chain problems caused by recent events. And the strange "Made In USA" C41 consumer film that has appeared in the last 2-3 years keeps the FujiFilm name alive but does give rise to more rumours.

The one thing Fuji won't do....is tell us exactly what's going on. And even if they did, the rumours would persist because there are a lot of dealers and end users who are pissed off with Fuji and who will take the most pessimistic view based on whatever is said.

I remember the FujiFilm UK rep, probably prior to the pandemic, stating Fuji's commitment to film....and people picked holes in it because he didn't specifically say more.

brbo · Mar 20, 2024

koraks said:
Is/was the film on those taped or clipped to the spindle within the cassette?

It's not Kodak produced film. Fuji has film clipped to the spindle.

koraks · Mar 20, 2024

brbo said:
It's not Kodak produced film. Fuji has film clipped to the spindle.

Yes, hence the question. AFAIK only Superia 200 has been made by Kodak, but I wasn't entirely sure about this.

brbo · Mar 20, 2024

Superia 200 was never produced by Kodak and hasn’t been in Fuji’s portfolio for a while now.

Kodak only produces or did produce Fujifilm 200 and Fujifilm 400 (no “Color”, “Fujicolor”, “Superia”, “C” or anything) for Fuji.

koraks · Mar 20, 2024

brbo said:
Superia 200 was never produced by Kodak

Sorry; "Fujifilm 200". Not 'Superia'.
This stuff:

pentaxuser · Mar 20, 2024

brbo said:
All this seems like a pretty clueless youtuber making a trip to Japan and "discovering" Fuji film. Film that was available in small quantites for local market all this time, even imported into EU through 3rd party resellers.

Yes that video caught my eye a couple of days ago but once I started to watch and listento what she had to say I quickly formed exactly the same impression as you. It seemed both clueless and the typical "clickbait" headline that had no substance to it

pentaxuser

Prest_400 · Mar 20, 2024

brbo said:
If Fuji really restarted film production only now, how was it possible for me to buy FujiColor 100 or Superia Premium 400 with dates ranging from 2023 to 2025 in the past years? I still have FujiColor 100 dated 2025/07 in my freezer.

All this seems like a pretty clueless youtuber making a trip to Japan and "discovering" Fuji film. Film that was available in small quantites for local market all this time, even imported into EU through 3rd party resellers. Fotoimpex occasionaly gets C100 and Premium 400 and sells it all within hours.

But, the real news from youtube experts on everything film is that there is obviously a huge shortage of Instax film in Japan. I would expect a massive quantities of Instax is sold in Japan. If Fuji is upgrading existing coating or packaging facilities for Instax this could mean a temporary disruption in production that would first show in domestic market. One can hope that if this is indeed the case that they are also upgrading of freeing some capacities for "traditional" film production.

Wholeheartedly agree. And Youtube plus other alternative forums unfortunately do not have the information robustness as eg. APUG when we had SImon Galley and PE here.

Fuji did however publish some limited information, looking back into it: They warned in Q4 2022 about Color film shortages, then paused production for Q2 2023

「カラーネガフィルム135サイズ」と「リバーサルフィルム135サイズ」の供給に関するお知らせとお詫び | 富士フイルムイメージングシステムズ株式会社

www.fujifilm.com

Fujifilm Announces Temporary Unavailability of Color Neg/Reversal Films in Japan in 135 and 120

From PexaPixel: https://petapixel.com/2023/03/29/fujifilm-japan-stops-accepting-orders-for-color-film-amid-supply-issues/?fbclid=IwAR17vBRRwTNhpTKXYiJ4M7mCSLSPj1Zj-h7g0S05R0-vAC2wTQ-lDSdSuOA

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写真フィルム・INSTAX“チェキ”一部製品の国内価格改定および「カラーネガフィルム135サイズ」と「リバーサルフィルム135サイズ・120サイズ」の受注再開のお知らせ | 富士フイルムイメージングシステムズ株式会社

www.fujifilm.com

It's not Rocket science but film manufacturing (pun intended) and very much possible that the supply shocks are still there, Fuji being unable to keep up with Instax demand and the traditional films are having very limited distribution while being produced still.

But looking into the portfolio, I commented about this in other threads but it's quite a limited lineup: just a total of 6 Color films. 3 C41 in 35mm only (1 being Superia Xtra with worldwide distribution) and 3 E6 films in both 35mm and 120.
Specially interesting that the C41's are limited, while it is the largest piece of the market. However, it is not easy to (reformulate) films so they might be going with the legacy products.

joelbolden · Mar 20, 2024

While I have no idea what's going on with Fuji; and nothing I've read here clears anything up, I do know that our local Walmart here in Central Pennsylvania has had an increasingly steady supply of Fujifilm400. It's gotten to the point where when I look in the film section there's still a box or two remaining. Before, it sold out instantly. I keep a constant supply in MY freezer.

armadsen · Mar 20, 2024

joelbolden said:
While I have no idea what's going on with Fuji; and nothing I've read here clears anything up, I do know that our local Walmart here in Central Pennsylvania has had an increasingly steady supply of Fujifilm400. It's gotten to the point where when I look in the film section there's still a box or two remaining. Before, it sold out instantly. I keep a constant supply in MY freezer.

Assuming it's the newer Made in USA Fujifilm 400 (not Superia X-TRA 400), it's made by Kodak, so Fuji's manufacturing isn't the bottleneck. Kodak seems to be doing just fine producing film at this point. Around me, all Kodak film is ~always available.

Sal Santamaura · Mar 20, 2024

GabrielC said:
...Acros being made at Ilford and not Fuji (meaning that they don't have any remaining capacity for film...

koraks said:
...Acros has been made by Ilford for a long time...

That depends on what one means by "made." ACROS II is most definitely confectioned/finished by HARMAN at Mobberley. However, unless one has insider information and is likely violating an NDA, they don't "know" where that film is coated. Fuji might coat it in Japan and ship master/mother rolls to HARMAN for finishing. Or it might ship emulsion to HARMAN for coating and finishing. Or it might provide HARMAN with the emulsion formula to enable HARMAN to make it, then coat and finish film. There are no publicly available data to indicate which approach is used.

koraks · Mar 20, 2024

bfilm · Mar 20, 2024

Sal Santamaura said:
That depends on what one means by "made." ACROS II is most definitely confectioned/finished by HARMAN at Mobberley. However, unless one has insider information and is likely violating an NDA, they don't "know" where that film is coated. Fuji might coat it in Japan and ship master/mother rolls to HARMAN for finishing. Or it might ship emulsion to HARMAN for coating and finishing. Or it might provide HARMAN with the emulsion formula to enable HARMAN to make it, then coat and finish film. There are no publicly available data to indicate which approach is used.

It is true that we don't know for sure, but I strongly suspect it is the latter. The other scenarios seem to make little sense. If Fujifilm is going to make any of it in Japan, why not just do the whole process. As I mentioned above, Fujifilm has been a real mystery in film in recent years. It is hard to understand their stated commitment to film while they seem to do such limited production. The other film manufacturers don't seem to have the problems that Fujifilm keeps claiming to have.

mshchem · Mar 20, 2024

I suspect that Fujifilm simply has better things to do. It's a shame, I miss the different Fujichrome films. My freezer still has a decent cache, after that it's Ektachrome (which is fabulous). Ektachrome is priced lower than Fujichrome films.

bfilm · Mar 20, 2024

mshchem said:
I suspect that Fujifilm simply has better things to do. It's a shame, I miss the different Fujichrome films. My freezer still has a decent cache, after that it's Ektachrome (which is fabulous). Ektachrome is priced lower than Fujichrome films.

I have also always liked Fujichrome. I used to like the "amateur" Fujichrome Sensia. I have used some Velvia, but probably prefer Provia. I have used some of the old Kodak Ektachrome and will probably soon try some of the new Ektachrome in 135 format.

I never got to try Fujichrome Astia or any of the Agfachrome films.

I have usually found the pricing as you describe, but I think this is one of those things that depends where you are and which film format you are considering, because I have also seen Ektachrome more expensive than Fujichrome.

mshchem · Mar 20, 2024

GabrielC said:
Hello everyone,

There is welcome news of new fuji (made in Japan) film in Japanese shelves, as shown in the following video :

However, this news is followed by many commentators saying that Fuji did not restart mass production of film, but instead are only selling film cut from old master rolls stored in huge freezers.
I reckon that this rumor is a long-standing one, but are there any truth to it ?

Personally, I wonder if the global demand of Instax and the lack of supply (apparently sufficient to force Fuji to increase its industrial capacity) would be an ideal culprit. If (and that's a big if) coating lines are shared between Instax and film, Fuji couldn't really handle both at the same time.
Furthermore, why would Fuji claim a lack of raw material to be the culprit if it was really freezer film ? Logistically speaking, a freezer roll would be available anytime, and there is no explanation as to why they stopped producing it for some time before supplying it again. The freezer film doesn't make sense in this context.

The only major arguments I see for this rumor is :
1. The discontinuation of Pro 400H (which was apparently popular), meaning that the freezer master rolls were depleted following this rumor ?
2. Apparent Japanese insiders that purport it is indeed freezer film (no real and definite proof)
3. Acros being made at Ilford and not Fuji (meaning that they don't have any remaining capacity for film

What do you think about this rumor ? Any definite proof ?

Thank you,
Gabriel

I watched this video by Yvonne Hanson (Vancouver Canada) she's done a great job of covering the topic. There's fresh Fujifilm available in Japan (made in Japan) Yvonne Hanson seems to be a sharp person, so, believe it or not.

FlyingO · Mar 20, 2024

GabrielC said:
“There is welcome news of new fuji (made in Japan) film in Japanese shelves, as shown in the following video :

However, this news is followed by many commentators saying that Fuji did not restart mass production of film, but instead are only selling film cut from old master rolls stored in huge freezers.
<snip>
Furthermore, why would Fuji claim a lack of raw material to be the culprit if it was really freezer film ? “

I saw her YT video very soon after she posted it and I’m thinking that Fuji hasn’t begun production again, but rather - in between when they announced the trouble with raw materials and now - several months - Fuji saw the demand and price for film basically double and, in an effort to seize some of that lucrative market, opened up a few vaults and put some frozen film on shelves in packaging printed with new expiration dates. I would imagine they routinely stockpile a ton of film stock in a corporate plan to be able to strike if the iron gets hot again. Just my two cents..

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Fujifilm Announces Temporary Unavailability of Color Neg/Reversal Films in Japan in 135 and 120

写真フィルム・INSTAX“チェキ”一部製品の国内価格改定および「カラーネガフィルム135サイズ」と「リバーサルフィルム135サイズ・120サイズ」の受注再開のお知らせ | 富士フイルムイメージングシステムズ株式会社

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