Fuji CN1LR Developer Replenisher with Kodak Flexicolor Starter?

[konradw]

I recently picked up home C-41 development again and had a lot of fun with the Kodak Flexicolor LORR C41B that I could get here in Taiwan. I have been lurking here for a while and learned a lot from all the past posts.

Today, to my dismay, my supplier told me that the Flexicolor developer is out of stock and that it could take up to three months to get new stock... He can get me a 10L kit of Fuji CN1LR Developer Replenisher (see picture), with one catch: the Fuji starter is out of stock too.

Is it possible to replace the Fuji Developer Starter with Kodak Flexicolor Developer starter?

My first thought was that, since the chemistry is most likely the same, it should be no problem. But then I discovered that the Fuji C41 chemistry is available in three different kinds of replenishment rates: LR, standard and 60 low throughput. Even if the contents are the same, I guess it may be difficult to determine the right amount of starter due to different concentrations. The stated LR replenishment rate of 21 ml/film does look quite similar to the Flexicolor LORR replenishment rate, so perhaps the LORR starter rates would work too?

Any tips for alternative ways to get Flexicolor in Taiwan would be appreciated too, if you happen to know any.

 

[koraks]

Is it possible to replace the Fuji Developer Starter with Kodak Flexicolor Developer starter?

Yes, but I don't know if it'll be exactly the same as official Fuji starter. It'll work, of sorts, no doubt, but there's no guarantee of correct color balance and gamma in the end.
If you want to be safe, I'd strongly suggest getting some Fuji universal starter; all their C41 (and derivatives) products use the same starter. It's available if memory serves in boxes with 6 bottles of 1.5l each. You might be able to find someone online selling single bottles as well. I must have a few somewhere as well that I'm not going to use, but shipping from EU to Taiwan is going to be expensive, I think.

Any tips for alternative ways to get Flexicolor in Taiwan would be appreciated too, if you happen to know any.

With the current status of Sinopromise I doubt flexicolor availability is very good anywhere across the globe. The current situation in your neck of the woods doesn't help either, I bet.

 

[konradw]

Yes, but I don't know if it'll be exactly the same as official Fuji starter. It'll work, of sorts, no doubt, but there's no guarantee of correct color balance and gamma in the end.
If you want to be safe, I'd strongly suggest getting some Fuji universal starter; all their C41 (and derivatives) products use the same starter. It's available if memory serves in boxes with 6 bottles of 1.5l each. You might be able to find someone online selling single bottles as well. I must have a few somewhere as well that I'm not going to use, but shipping from EU to Taiwan is going to be expensive, I think.

My main concern with shipping would not be the cost, but the rules and paperwork. I have no idea what the local regulations are for importing chemicals and I don't really feel like finding out. This kind of limits my options for sourcing it.

I will try to find some Fuji starter. If I really cannot get it, I may just try with Kodak and report how it went.

With the current status of Sinopromise I doubt flexicolor availability is very good anywhere across the globe. The current situation in your neck of the woods doesn't help either, I bet.

I just read up on the Sinopromise issues, thanks. I have lost track of how Kodak was split up and where everything went.

 

[foc]

I would suggest you try the Kodak starter as you suggested and see how you get on.
The only correct way to see if this works is to run a C41 control strip but if that is not possible then go with your instinct.
To be perfectly honest, with home developing, a few mls out with the starter won't cause too many problems.

 

[konradw]

I would suggest you try the Kodak starter as you suggested and see how you get on.
The only correct way to see if this works is to run a C41 control strip but if that is not possible then go with your instinct.
To be perfectly honest, with home developing, a few mls out with the starter won't cause too many problems.

Unfortunately I don't have any control strips or densitometer. I'm not even sure I can do all the other parts of the process within the margin of error where these would actually be useful.

I had a look at Kodak Z-131 page 5-37 (attached), which describes the errors introduced by using an incorrect Flexicolor LORR starter concentration. It looks like a starter mix error of say up to 20% would still not be too bad, with the error introduced being smaller than when you are 0.5 deg C off in temperature.

Of course it is best to try to eliminate any source of error, as they all compound.

 

[koraks]

A lot depends of course on how critical you are of the end result. Do you want the best possible color accuracy, also across several rolls? Or are you happy with decent colors that pretty much fit your memory of what you photographed and that you scan and then color correct as necessary? In the latter instance, you could just give it a go with the Kodak starter. If you're currently a hybrid worker and you intend to print RA4 optically in the future, I'd be more hesitant, as you might end up optimizing for a more forgiving process today and be stuck with unfixable color problems tomorrow.

 

[konradw]

A lot depends of course on how critical you are of the end result. Do you want the best possible color accuracy, also across several rolls? Or are you happy with decent colors that pretty much fit your memory of what you photographed and that you scan and then color correct as necessary? In the latter instance, you could just give it a go with the Kodak starter. If you're currently a hybrid worker and you intend to print RA4 optically in the future, I'd be more hesitant, as you might end up optimizing for a more forgiving process today and be stuck with unfixable color problems tomorrow.

I am DSLR scanning the negatives, but I don't really enjoy fixing screw-ups in curves and like to just get things right. That's also a reason I prefer to avoid the "reuse until you do not like the results" kits.

I used to do RA4 over 20 years ago when I was a teenager. I enjoyed it, but never got my colours quite right. Trying to work with negatives developed in a cold room with a warm water basin instead of with a sous vide stick probably did not help. I do not expect to be taking RA4 up again in the foreseeable future, but, then again, I said the same about shooting film a few years ago, so who knows. I did find my old Philips enlarger in my parents' attic and am now actually using my old EL Nikkor 50mm f/2.8 for DSLR scanning.

 

[koraks]

Yeah, I see what you mean. Well, whatever happens, at least you rediscovered a fun hobby

As to the starter - I think it will probably work with the Kodak starter in the Fuji replenisher and given that the fact that you scan/photograph the negatives, you'll be spending some time adjusting curves anyway. In that sense it wouldn't matter much if you have a slight additional color cast, gamma mismatch or even some crossover. The latter can be frustrating, but if you know what you're looking at, it can usually be corrected away digitally for a large part.