Frustrating Issues with HC-110

Finn lyle · Sep 25, 2020

This is more sharing my frustrations than anything. I'm a college student and often find myself shooting a dozen or so rolls of film during the semester and then developing them as a batch every few months. I've struggled with finding a developer that was both easy enough to store and mix in my limited space and had a reliable shelf life, and settled on HC-110 due to the legendary longevity and small volume of concentrate needed to develop a vast amount of film. Well my first bottle came with a tablespoon of salt crystals in the bottom. It worked fine anyway, and I mixed it into the 1:3 stock to redissolve the salts. I kept that in a full bottle and forgot about it-- until this week. The stock was mixed about two months ago, and it was a light orange color. Now, however, its a dark red-black color, I mean it looks like printer ink. Foolishly I decided to try using it anyway, with a roll of long expired HIE too. Well, dilution B for 6 min at 70º F and the film came out clear as glass. I'm told that almost all HIE has some degree of base fog, so even if it had been totally underexposed, which is doubtful, there would have been fog and edge markings. I'm sure that if it had not been diluted to the stock solution I wouldn't be having this issue, thought the shelf life of stock is supposed to be 6 months. So it goes...

glbeas · Sep 25, 2020

Best use is to only mix the concentrate directly to working dilutions only in the amount needed. Most folks only use it once like this, especially with the more dilute mixes. Once the water is added the self destruct clock speeds up a lot, the concentrate is a lot more stable for long term keeping. If you have an inert gas you can flush the bottle with it keeps even longer.

BradS · Sep 25, 2020

sounds like the film may have gone in the fixer before the developer...It is really, really hard to make negatives, that have been exposed "clear as glass".

Donald Qualls · Sep 25, 2020

The other thing is, modern HC-110 isn't the legendary long-lived variety any more. The formula was changed (in 2019?) to a much less viscous mixture that gives reason to believe its longevity has been greatly curtailed.

For the way you process (many rolls at once, 3-4 times a year), I'd recommend either buying the smallest bottle you can get of a Rodinal derivative (these keep well as concentrate, likely better than new HC-110), or buying some basic chemicals (metol, hydroquinone, sodium sulfite -- and get borax at the grocery store immediately before use) and mix your own D-76 or D-23 (no borax or hydroquinone needed) from dry each time you're ready to run a batch. Mix 500 ml of stock solution, and with 1+2 dilution you have enough developer to process 15 rolls of 35mm in a Paterson type tank, perhaps 16 or 17 in stainless tanks, for a couple bucks worth of dry chemicals. If kept airtight, the basic chemicals will keep for decades.

BradS · Sep 25, 2020

HC-110 is a fantastic developer. I've used it for decades and really appreciate it for exactly the reasons stated in the OP.
As an alternative the OP may find mixing something like D23 from scratch a viable alternative. One need only purchase two chemicals, Metol and Sodium Sulfite. If properly stored, the dry chemicals will last indefinitely and a small batch of dev can be mixed as needed (but do it at least a few hours in advance of use).

MattKing · Sep 25, 2020

BradS said:
sounds like the film may have gone in the fixer before the developer...It is really, really hard to make negatives, that have been exposed "clear as glass".

Brad is correct, except for one circumstance.
If your HC-110 was truly expired when you used it, and it probably was, then using it before the fixer is similar to just using fixer - no development occurred.
Don't worry about the crystals. It is best to dilute HC-110 directly from concentrate. If you are going to be doing a bunch of development over a couple of days, then the intermediate dilution to stock makes sense - that was/is how high volume commercial labs do it.

Bormental · Sep 25, 2020

@Finn lyle if you're space constrained and developing in batches, I wouldn't bother with liquids anyway. Batch-processing gives you options! My favorite powder developer is D76 variant from Ultrafine. People keep saying that all D76 clones are the same, but I prefer this one to ID-11.

One $6 packet gives you 7.5L of 1:1 one-shot working solution, that's more than enough to process your batch, with no headaches about chemical longevity.

Cholentpot · Sep 25, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
The other thing is, modern HC-110 isn't the legendary long-lived variety any more. The formula was changed (in 2019?) to a much less viscous mixture that gives reason to believe its longevity has been greatly curtailed.

For the way you process (many rolls at once, 3-4 times a year), I'd recommend either buying the smallest bottle you can get of a Rodinal derivative (these keep well as concentrate, likely better than new HC-110), or buying some basic chemicals (metol, hydroquinone, sodium sulfite -- and get borax at the grocery store immediately before use) and mix your own D-76 or D-23 (no borax or hydroquinone needed) from dry each time you're ready to run a batch. Mix 500 ml of stock solution, and with 1+2 dilution you have enough developer to process 15 rolls of 35mm in a Paterson type tank, perhaps 16 or 17 in stainless tanks, for a couple bucks worth of dry chemicals. If kept airtight, the basic chemicals will keep for decades.

The day I heard of the switch I went to the local shop and snagged the last bottle of the original stuff. My bottle I use now I got over 5 years ago, a wee bit left, should last another year.

dourbalistar · Sep 25, 2020

Another alternative is LegacyPro L110, which is a clone of HC-110. I've used it exclusively for several years now as a one-shot developer, and I like that it comes in a smaller pint-sized (16 oz.) bottle, no mixing from dry powder necessary. I've used it up to and past one year after opening the bottle with no issues. It does change color a bit from clear to brown, with some precipitate crystals, but with no detrimental effect that I can tell. Best of all, it's very affordable, at $14.99. If if you're worried that it's gone bad, just chuck it to be safe and buy a new bottle. Available from Freestyle, and B&H also carries it now. You can see image samples of it on my Flickr, and I include all my development data there as well.

Donald Qualls · Sep 25, 2020

Cholentpot said:
The day I heard of the switch I went to the local shop and snagged the last bottle of the original stuff. My bottle I use now I got over 5 years ago, a wee bit left, should last another year.

I have several small juice bottles filled bubble free with the old syrup, as well as a new, never opened, 14 year old (silver plastic) bottle of the old syrup. There will come a day (perhaps soon) when I'm ready for one-shot developer again (when I need something replenished Xtol can't give), and then I'll either open one of those bottles of old HC-110, or mix up a batch of Parodinal. Meantime, that reminds me, I need to check for stock on Xtol at Freestyle, B&H, Glass Key, etc. and order a couple bags if I find it.

Luis-F-S · Sep 25, 2020

Been using HC-110 for the better part of 30 years. Never had an issue with it. Usually pour out 9 ml from the bottle and mix Don't make more of a working solution than needed!

Finn lyle · Sep 25, 2020

MattKing said:
If your HC-110 was truly expired when you used it, and it probably was, then using it before the fixer is similar to just using fixer - no development occurs.

I suppose it’s possible I did that, though it’s very unlikely. The only other time I’ve heard of this kind of “sudden death” exhaustion was with Ilfosol, but it’s good to be aware of now I guess . I’ll not be making stock to keep from now on, it’s very relieving to hear that the crystals shouldn’t be an issue.
I’ve been looking into mixing my own developers for a while, but can’t seem to pull away from the look HC-110 gives with certain films. Besides the darkroom cookbook, are there any other good (and easy-ish to get) guides for mixing from scratch?

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Sep 25, 2020

Finn lyle said:
Foolishly I decided to try using it anyway, with a roll of long expired HIE too. Well, dilution B for 6 min at 70º F and the film came out clear as glass.

Always remember to do a clip test before pouring the developer into the tank.

Donald Qualls · Sep 26, 2020

Finn lyle said:
Besides the darkroom cookbook, are there any other good (and easy-ish to get) guides for mixing from scratch?

There's also The Film Developing Cookbook which, as the title suggests, is oriented strictly toward film (no paper developers, no toners, etc.). Same author as The Darkroom Cookbook plus another (Steve Anchell and Bill Troop, if I've remembered their first names right).

There are also lots of resources on the Internet that are newer than those books. For instance, "Developer cubes". Patrick Gainer's work on ascorbate developers, culminating in PC-TEA (which keeps like HC-110 and contains only three ingredients).

As well, commercial products like Df96 monobath are aimed at users with limited working space -- and this would be close to ideal for your usage pattern. Comes as dry ingredients in bags, as well as premixed in a jug; the dry ingredients ought to keep for many years as long as the seal is tight (they're also a couple bucks less and cost a bit less to ship). Mix up a liter, and you can develop and fix up to sixteen rolls (or more, with extended process time) over a shelf life of a couple months for the working solution. One storage jug, short process, and done. May not be the best developer for any given film, but it will in fact develop nearly any B&W film.

Cinestill BWXX (relabeled Kodak Double-X Negative cine film), Df96

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Sep 26, 2020

Finn lyle said:
can’t seem to pull away from the look HC-110 gives with certain films.

Some people say this developer is a good substitute for HC-110. You can perhaps search the threads on this forum and find out more.

https://www.freestylephoto.biz/10190-LegacyPro-L110-Liquid-Film-Developer-1-Pint-(Makes-2-Gallons)

MattKing · Sep 26, 2020

I've been thinking about this. How did you store the 4 litres of stock?
What sort of bottles, of what material, with how much air space above the fluid, what sort of caps, and in what sort of light?

BradS · Sep 26, 2020

MattKing said:
I've been thinking about this. How did you store the 4 litres of stock?
What sort of bottles, of what material, with how much air space above the fluid, what sort of caps, and in what sort of light?

and what possible contaminates ?

MattKing · Sep 26, 2020

BradS said:
and what possible contaminates ?

Including what water did you use for the dilutant?

dourbalistar · Sep 26, 2020

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:
Some people say this developer is a good substitute for HC-110. You can perhaps search the threads on this forum and find out more.

https://www.freestylephoto.biz/10190-LegacyPro-L110-Liquid-Film-Developer-1-Pint-(Makes-2-Gallons)

Yes, I suggested LegacyPro L110 upthread in Post #9. I've never used HC-110, so I personally can't compare and judge whether it's a good substitute. However, I've been happy enough with my results to keep using it as my primary developer for the past few years. There may be other threads about it here on the forum, but here's one of them:
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/legacypro-l110-hc-110-equivalent.121345/

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Sep 26, 2020

dourbalistar said:
Yes, I suggested LegacyPro L110 upthread in Post #9. I've never used HC-110, so I personally can't compare and judge whether it's a good substitute. However, I've been happy enough with my results to keep using it as my primary developer for the past few years. There may be other threads about it here on the forum, but here's one of them:
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/legacypro-l110-hc-110-equivalent.121345/

@dourbalistar: I had missed seeing your earlier post, I'm sorry. BTW your flickr stream is very good.

dourbalistar · Sep 27, 2020

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:
@dourbalistar: I had missed seeing your earlier post, I'm sorry. BTW your flickr stream is very good.

@Raghu Kuvempunagar, no worries, it's easy to miss a post. And thank you for the kind words.

Finn lyle · Sep 27, 2020

MattKing said:
I've been thinking about this. How did you store the 4 litres of stock?
What sort of bottles, of what material, with how much air space above the fluid, what sort of caps, and in what sort of light?

By the time I finished that batch of film, I only had about a liter and a half left, I stored it in a half-gallon amber beer growler (bought new for chemicals) under the kitchen sink. It was diluted down with RO water, though I didn’t temper the dissolved oxygen out nor did I fill the air space with an inert gas, which is something I’ll definitely be doing in the future. And honestly the Legacy Pro version is looking more like a steal, for my volume and at that price it’s not a big deal to just get a new bottle of concentrate each batch of film. So thanks for the recommendation yall!

Mainecoonmaniac · Sep 27, 2020

Finn lyle said:
This is more sharing my frustrations than anything. I'm a college student and often find myself shooting a dozen or so rolls of film during the semester and then developing them as a batch every few months. I've struggled with finding a developer that was both easy enough to store and mix in my limited space and had a reliable shelf life, and settled on HC-110 due to the legendary longevity and small volume of concentrate needed to develop a vast amount of film. Well my first bottle came with a tablespoon of salt crystals in the bottom. It worked fine anyway, and I mixed it into the 1:3 stock to redissolve the salts. I kept that in a full bottle and forgot about it-- until this week. The stock was mixed about two months ago, and it was a light orange color. Now, however, its a dark red-black color, I mean it looks like printer ink. Foolishly I decided to try using it anyway, with a roll of long expired HIE too. Well, dilution B for 6 min at 70º F and the film came out clear as glass. I'm told that almost all HIE has some degree of base fog, so even if it had been totally underexposed, which is doubtful, there would have been fog and edge markings. I'm sure that if it had not been diluted to the stock solution I wouldn't be having this issue, thought the shelf life of stock is supposed to be 6 months. So it goes...

You don’t have to use it from a mixed stock solution. For dilution B, I mix 1 part syrup to 31 parts water. I’ve been using it for over 30 years and have had no problems. I’ve used it when it was brown. It’s the only commercial developer that’s mixed in glycerol which gives it longevity.

jvo · Sep 29, 2020

i've always used it as a one-shot developer (jason brunner listed the formula/methodolgy on this site) - never a problem, or noticed a difference even with the new formula.

BradS · Sep 30, 2020

A very quick check at the B&H web site shows...

Legacy pro 110 $15/pint = $31.70/liter
Kodak HC-110 $35.00/liter

not really a huge price difference.

Frustrating Issues with HC-110

Finn lyle

glbeas

BradS

Donald Qualls

BradS

MattKing

Moderator

Bormental

Cholentpot

dourbalistar

Donald Qualls

Luis-F-S

Finn lyle

Raghu Kuvempunagar

Donald Qualls

Raghu Kuvempunagar

MattKing

Moderator

BradS

MattKing

Moderator

dourbalistar

Raghu Kuvempunagar

dourbalistar

Finn lyle

Mainecoonmaniac

jvo

BradS

Frustrating Issues with HC-110

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency