From The Department Of "Old Dog, Dumb Tricks"

[chuckroast]

I have just had two back to back incidents of older chemistry biting me in the <Biblical beast of burden>.

First I had 1 year old Pyrocat-HD in glycol just magically stop working.

I solved this by switching to Pyrocat-HDC and promising myself to never let it age much beyond six months. It's cheap enough to make and throwing out a few hundred ml is worth the peace of mind it brings.

The second problem was more irritating. I started to experience light staining on fiber prints with absolutely zero changes to paper or process. I checked everything I could think of, cleaned trays, cleaned print washer, made new developer, new working strength Hypam, threw out the last of a bottle of KRST and opened a new one, increased wash time between fix and toner and NOTHING fixed it.

Everything pointed to bad fixer but I just couldn't believe it. I've never had problems with Hypam at any age. What finally gave me a hint is when I accidentally poured TF-4 into my fixer tray instead of Hypam. Problem solved. So... I bought some TF-5 and confirmed that it was, indeed, the fixer that was giving me fits.

I have been using Hypam as a rapid fixer for prints since Noah floated the Ark (for those following along, note 2nd Biblical reference). Some years ago, I was printing a fair bit at 16x20 and was going through chemistry at impressive rates. These days, I do more 8x10 printing, so the chems last a while. So, my container of Hypam was from 2020 and was about 1/3 full. When I finally isolated the problem and dumped it out, it had a most un-Hypam like odour that reminded me of decaying roadkill with a finish of dog vomit. It just wasn't obvious when mixing up working strength fixer. I had to get my nose up close to enjoy that particular experience.

Thus, the holidays have me "a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief" (3rd Biblical reference) but I believe that I have achieved some semblance of photographic salvation at this point.

Lesson Learned: Do not buy or mix wildly more chemistry than you're likely to use in 6-9 months or the gods of phography will punish you.

Deeply Humbled,
I Remain,
The Roasted Chuckroast

 

[Donald Qualls]

Yeah, I may be setting myself up for a similar failure. I mixed a 5L of Eco-Pro (Xtol clone) and stored it in a wine bag/box -- and then life got more hectic and I haven't developed a single roll in more than a year. You can be sure I'll do a strip test or at least a leader test before I depend on that developer, never mind that it's been reputed to last longer than that in that kind of oxygen-free storage.

Also the same thing with 5L of Flexicolor Color Developer Replenisher, which is now a hard thing to get in sizes less than several times that amount.

 

[Bill Burk]

I’ve had so much trouble with selenium staining that I quit

I think with Kodak rapid fixer, I need a full wash at least an hour before toning.

 

[chuckroast]

I’ve had so much trouble with selenium staining that I quit

I think with Kodak rapid fixer, I need a full wash at least an hour before toning.

I am cautiously optimistic that the following is working:

Dektol 1:2 Dev - 2min
Acetic Acid Stop - 20 sec
TF-5 Fix - 1 min
Running water wash 5 min
KRST 1:40 - 3+ min
Permawash - 5 min
Running water wash - 60 min

 

[loccdor]

Fixer is cheap, I just make a new gallon every year. It's like an oil change.

 

[Bill Burk]

I am cautiously optimistic that the following is working:

Dektol 1:2 Dev - 2min
Acetic Acid Stop - 20 sec
TF-5 Fix - 1 min
Running water wash 5 min
KRST 1:40 - 3+ min
Permawash - 5 min
Running water wash - 60 min

Thanks,

I'm doing Kodak Rapid Fix (without hardener) and washing an hour before KRST 1:20 (warm) 3+ minutes.
When I wash less than an hour that's when I see staining.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

Acidic fixers like Hypam and Ilford Rapid Fix will sulfur out with age. This happens because the sodium sulfite preservative gets fully oxidized and the ammonium thiosulfate then starts degrading, leaving a precipitate, flakes and a strong sulfide odor. The trick is to check your fixer for the above and not use it if it's going bad. Doing a clearing-time test to make sure the fixer is as active as new when in doubt is a good idea too.

Bill, I still don't understand your selenium toning problems. If you suspect the Kodak Rapid Fix, then try with another fixer.

FWIW, I use Hypam or Ilford Rapid Fix 1+9 for fiber-base prints and transfer the prints directly from the second fix to the toner without an intermediate rinse/wash. This was AA's technique and it's worked for me for 40+ years.

The only time I've got staining is when the fixer was close to exhaustion (I make sure it isn't now) or when the fixer was too acidic (hence my using the 1+9 dilution). Using a neutral fixer like TF-5 should make things even more secure.

Why don't you give it a try and see if that cures your toner woes.

Best,

Doremus

 

[chuckroast]

Fixer is cheap, I just make a new gallon every year. It's like an oil change.

I mix 2l fresh every 40 or so 8x10s. The problem here was the age of the stock solution.

 

[chuckroast]

Acidic fixers like Hypam and Ilford Rapid Fix will sulfur out with age. This happens because the sodium sulfite preservative gets fully oxidized and the ammonium thiosulfate then starts degrading, leaving a precipitate, flakes and a strong sulfide odor. The trick is to check your fixer for the above and not use it if it's going bad. Doing a clearing-time test to make sure the fixer is as active as new when in doubt is a good idea too.

I am fairly sure that's what happened here - certainly the stench suggested that.

What's weird is that there was no precipitate in the bad fixer stock.

I am likely just switching to TF-5 and calling it a day.

 

[mshchem]

I’ve had so much trouble with selenium staining that I quit

I think with Kodak rapid fixer, I need a full wash at least an hour before toning.

I go from rapid fix to Se with a quick 30 second wash. Staining indicates inadequate fixing (IIRC)

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I am cautiously optimistic that the following is working:

Dektol 1:2 Dev - 2min
Acetic Acid Stop - 20 sec
TF-5 Fix - 1 min
Running water wash 5 min
KRST 1:40 - 3+ min
Permawash - 5 min
Running water wash - 60 min

I believe, you should be save there but prefer a full wash before toning myself.

 

[Dr. no]

You missed another reference: “as a dog returns to its vomit”…

 

[chuckroast]

You missed another reference: “as a dog returns to its vomit”…

I also liked:

“So I told them, ‘Whoever has any gold jewelry, take it off.’ Then they gave me the gold, and I threw it into the fire, and out came this calf!” Exodus 32:24 (NIV)

But I didn't use it here because I think that refers to buying new Leica digital M and Q bodies ...