Thanks for your answer, my friend is a great photographer and filmmaker, he also develops his own rolls, we are just researching now and seeing if it makes financial sense.
I wonder what kind of steel tank are you looking for? what model?
Tell your friend that business is still little,
Yes, it is true that analog photography comes back to life at a rapid rate, but the volume of demand for development services is not that the hoped-for quantity through which it is possible to reach the break-even point and cover expenses and then make profits.
This friend of yours is just someone who wants to take chances.
He wants to make money from the boom in the world of analog photography,
He wants to ride the wave.
He is not an analog photographer, and he is not a fan of photography.
If he was a photographer and a true lover of analogues, he would not want to seek advice. The real photographer knows everything about this field,, I am in Egypt and I contact Champion in Canada and ask them about the prices of their products and I contact a company in Italy,, and Finally, I prepare the chemistry with my own hands so that I can save some money.
- I am looking for a (cover) for a stainless steel development tank, as it is characterized by the ability to develop a number of rolls with less than half a liter.
Why do I do that?
So I can save some money? Why ?
So that I can buy chemicals before they are about to run out?
(V30) machine, In order to become economical in operation, it must develop at least 50 rolls per day in order to only reach the break-even point and be able to cover the cost of chemistry,, This machine needs 10 liters of chemical per tank .
- You should conduct a careful feasibility study,, and suppose that he brought that machine and brought chemistry to it, opened the laboratory and hung up the sign,, How many rolls is he expected to develop per day.? And what is the life span of chemistry?
Some young men in Egypt saw that I appeared on the analog photographic scene in Egypt and set up an analog club in my home. I started to attract some young men as trainees and as clients. They felt that this might be profitable. And they decided to do so, and they bought a primitive (JOBO) machine from the internet. They bought the powdered Cinesteel chemistry, and they thought that they would be able to make profits, but they made losses, because the life span of the chemistry is short and in return the size of the business is small.
I do not keep a secret from you,, the only thing that has made me cohesive so far is that I am the one who prepares chemistry from scratch, I prepare half a liter and that half a liter should be able to develop six rolls.
I develop films only on Friday and Saturday of every week. If God blessed me with one roll, then I must prepare half a liter.
- So, the consumption of chemistry is according to the number of films that God sends me.
I don't think your friend will succeed, even if he has a huge capital. The story currently needs someone who has profound strengths in this field. Before that, you need passion, you don't need a businessman, but you need a passionate photographer and a lover of analog to the core.
+1Perhaps investigate a space for people to develop film and print for themselves on a rental or co-op type arrangement? You provide water, some standard chemicals, necessary hardware and dark. That would shift responsibility to the clients for quality and decrease the inventory of developers you’d need to keep on hand. Maybe a web or app based scheduling system? It could appeal to folks without a home darkroom. Just my 2 cents. A business plan is a must though. Best of luck with whatever you decide.
https://www.freestylephoto.biz/161816-Arista-Tank-PVC-Replacement-TopThanks for your answer, my friend is a great photographer and filmmaker, he also develops his own rolls, we are just researching now and seeing if it makes financial sense.
I wonder what kind of steel tank are you looking for? what model?
Okay ,,Color 35mm film, C41 process.
He´s already doing it manually, using a small tank for two rolls at a time. We are seeing an increased interest on analog photography and he is getting lots of request for film development so I want to start looking into it, look at the options, the prices and if it makes sense for the scale we currently at.
.... I recall having to sign a waiver when I dropped off film that limited the lab’s responsibility to replacement of film (raw stock) only. It seemed to work. The motion picture labs had the same policy and a reshoot could cost hundreds of thousands of dollars (of course they had insurance to cover such a loss). If your friends didn’t have that waiver -wow- that would brutal. Even with the waiver they could get sued of course and have to defend their position. Best to have insurance!!! In any commercial venture.
I've returned late to this thread, and finding some interesting comments. My friends' lab 'accident' was due to one partner's son who had been smoking marijuana (unknown to anyone else) on-site and mixed up the developing chemistry. Disastrous results. The costs were $22,000 plus two hefty legal bills as the plaintiffs' lawyers had to be paid too. This was a few years ago, but I recall the defending lawyer advised a legal waiver to limit damages would not have stood up in court (in Australia) if the defendants' lawyer proved negligence was the cause, which of course it was.
Moving on. A Jobo unit would probably do the job in the early stages of the business. Extra processing tanks would have to be bought, but these are (I think) far cheaper than paying big dollars for a prolab unit. My at home darkroom consists of a budget-priced Jobo Duolab (now no longer manufactured and very, very basic) and six Jobo tanks, so I can easily handle up to a dozen rolls in any given session. I processed a lot of my own film 15-20 years ago but now shoot very little analog so my requirements now are less.
Chemistry is another sticky-point. One small (home) lab in Melbourne once proudly told potential clients they mixed their developers from raw chemistry. I thought about this and decided to give them a miss as I considered there were too many risks. Mix up the metol and hydroquinone or miscalculate and add a double batch of this or that chemical, and boom!! the client's precious films get cooked. Liquid chemistry is the way. Careful planning of the operation to save money can either be spending up big initially to ensure longer term cost savings or penny-pinching, and to me this home-brewing developers sounded like the latter. (This lab lasted about six months and then shut up shop, literally overnight, the partners packed up everything and moved out of their rented space, leaving all sorts of bills behind. A cautionary tale...)
I agree there is scope for potentially good business in film processing, but an important part of the business plan has to be disaster planning.
A business plan doesn't have to be book length, but it has to consider all the important options. A careful and sensible budget for setting up is crucial. Also operating costs for at least one year, and a calculation of how much film has to be done per week to cover the overheads and leave some pocket money for the owners, which is all anyone should realistically expect to get from such a business in the first year.
Moving on again. Re jamesaz (#25), co-op darkrooms have never succeeded well in Australia. They came and went quickly in the so-called good old days when everyone wanted to play with film. All it took was one slob or a thief and things went topsy-turvy. I used one or two in my time but quickly got tired of having to clean up other users' messes and wiping down equipment and counter tops to remove the fixer stains. The home darkroom is my way.
Trying not to be negative here, but merely consider as many of the important options as I can think of. One has to be positive to succeed in a small business, but a well thought out Plan B is crucial if things go belly-up. After all in business, it's really all about - the money.
Okay ,,
If you are thinking of working with manual tank,
I agree to that, and even encourage you to do so, and I may offer you some tips that will benefit you in this matter, resulting from my experience in this field.
- I lost a lot of money at first because of my stupidity and indifference and because I was using a lot of chemistry and preparing a lot of chemistry in the hope that I would get many clients..
Potential customers,, remain potential until they come themselves or send their films and you get to my hand. (Before that, these customers are the same and nothingness is the same). Any customer who calls you and tells you that he will come with films that he wants to develop, you should consider that this person did not call you, or that he was already coming, but he had an accident and died on the way to you.
I decided to work only two and a half days a week.
Thursday half day from five in the afternoon until ten in the evening and Friday and Saturday from 10 in the morning until ten in the evening.
And I've told all potential clients about it.
Thursday is for receiving films from customers, and Friday is divided into two parts, the first half of this day is for receiving films from customers, and here I will know how many films I have to develop, and based on that, I will make the second half Preparing as much chemistry as I will need it.
- The films will be delivered after development within a week. If the customer wants to scan, I will do it and send the pictures online, and if he does not want to, he must come himself the next week in order to receive the developed films.
I finish .
thinking in other terms, what could be a cheap way to automate certain parts of developing and scanning without spending a fortune for a minilab?
thanks
We were as simple as it gets, starting in 1890.
If he does that, that means he will succeedgreat info, this is the way my friend is working now
I completely agree with this respected colleague's opinion.The lab started in 1890, or 1980, or are you a lich or vampire or something?
But an all manual process lab is totally doable [and probably the sensible path if you're aiming small scale to start with little to no budget] but hard to scale for growth and consistency if you're not planning a path for automation.
Excellent point. There were lots of labs back in the day running manual lines. Minimal gear required. Roll and sheet films in hard rubber or stainless tanks.I ran a lab and we had no automation. All deep tanks or small tanks and reels. We were as simple as it gets, starting in 1890. Sheet stuff was processed in Kodak hard rubber tanks and all prints made on enlargers and tray processed. Prints were washed in a huge Pako washer and dried on a ferrotype dryer and straightened with an ancient steam Kodak Print Straightener.
As I recall, it was a dollar to develop the negs and 17 cents per 2R/3R/2S/3S print. 5x7s were .75 and 8x10, buck fifty.
I think it is possible and I wish you luck.
Bob
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