Fresh XTOL from PSI and thin Negatives

[Joerg Bergs]

After all the back and forth from and with Tetenal, I used up my old XTOL packs until 2020 in order to then use Mörsch chemistry exclusively. A test of the new US XTOL batch with a TX400 35mm film amazed me because the film did not reach its sensitivity or maximum density. I haven't tested another batch yet or testet films accurately to the new batch. What is your experience with current XTOL chemistry? Sino Promis XTOL was unusable and I haven't used Adox XT3 yet and don’t plan to for now.

 

[Chuck_P]

After all the back and forth from and with Tetenal, I used up my old XTOL packs until 2020 in order to then use Mörsch chemistry exclusively. A test of the new US XTOL batch with a TX400 35mm film amazed me because the film did not reach its sensitivity or maximum density. I haven't tested another batch yet or testet films accurately to the new batch. What is your experience with current XTOL chemistry? Sino Promis XTOL was unusable and I haven't used Adox XT3 yet and don’t plan to for now.

I use XTOL and have had no issues with it, so I would have to wonder what else might be going.....are you sure the film was exposed properly?

 

[Joerg Bergs]

Yes, the film was correctly exposed. Another one was excellently developed in a batch that we use in the lab (MeinFilmLab).

 

[radialMelt]

Perhaps coincidence, or perhaps user error on my part, but I have some new XTOL that I'm currently using and experiencing the same thing-- very thin negs. Not unusably thin, mind you. They scan reasonably well. But thinner than I would expect for sure. I was assuming it was my fault since its only my second time running XTOL. Interesting to hear you're having the same experience.

For the record I most recently noticed this after processing a roll of Tmax400 in 120 format... 6:05 @ 20C, agitation according to Kodak's instructions

MODERATOR'S NOTE: radialMelt's subsequent post merged with this one:

It's too late to edit this post, so posting here to say ignore me. I just realized I was following timing for full strength (undiluted) XTOL, not 1+1 dilution. I technically should have been developing for 9:15min, not 6:15min. User error.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I found that XTOL worked will with all black & white films, however I found that the Ilford films came out thin with the posted times. Therefore I add one minute to the 68 degree F [20 degree C] time for all Ilford films.

 

[radialMelt]

Perhaps coincidence, or perhaps user error on my part, ....

See edited, combined post #4

 

[DeletedAcct1]

Another Xtol failure?

 

[pentaxuser]

Another Xtol failure?

I assume you haven't seen #4?

pentaxuser

 

[Sirius Glass]

Another Xtol failure?

Unlikely, more like an Operator Assisted Failure.

 

[mshchem]

I haven't had any issues.

 

[radialMelt]

I assume you haven't seen #4?

pentaxuser

post #4 is not the OP.

 

[DeletedAcct1]

So basically what's going on?

 

[Sirius Glass]

So basically what's going on?

Time is moving faster than responses are being posted. It looks as though the OP has moved on.

 

[pentaxuser]

Time is moving faster than responses are being posted. It looks as though the OP has moved on.

Yes some strange people who may not have understood the unwritten rules of Photrio think that having got an answer that is satisfactory to them or in this case found the answer from other sources simply tell us "problem solved" and move on

pentaxuser

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

All the bags I got from Sino Promise so far have been fine...

 

[Joerg Bergs]

Time is moving faster than responses are being posted. It looks as though the OP has moved on.

Sorry for the late reply, but the Christmas business at the Lab doesn't allow time for a quick response. The current batch, made in US, is not usable, as, after a retest, TriX and Tmax400 are coming out underdeveloped with our time. We would therefore have to retest all films. A test of 0.1 over fog showed a lower sensitivity for both films. Xtol was applied correctly and the temperature and time were exactly the same as in the old test. I may test a second bag in the spring, but this one, from a first batch, is unusable.

 

[Joerg Bergs]

All the bags I got from Sino Promise so far have been fine...

No, because the Chinese powder hardly dissolved at up to 30C°. And higher temperatures are absolutely not recommended, as the vitamin C derivative is damaged.

 

[retina_restoration]

I will not buy the "Kodak" branded chemistry anymore - I am using Adox XT-3 instead and it is reliable and produces optimal negatives. I recommend switching to Adox chemistry.

 

[brbo]

The current batch, made in US, is not usable, as, after a retest, TriX and Tmax400 are coming out underdeveloped with our time. We would therefore have to retest all films. A test of 0.1 over fog showed a lower sensitivity for both films.

This s*it again?!

Are there more reports of the new new new Xtol activity problem?

I switched to XT-3, but since I use so little BW films I liked the “unlimited” (for me thats sometimes more than 3 years) life of mixed stock Xtol. I hope I don’t learn about XT-3 longevity not being at least as good as Xtol the hard way (as I did with Foma Excel - another “100% trust me bro” clone of Xtol)…

 

[uranylcation]

I got very thin Tmax 100 and Acros II 100 from Xtol developed in recommended time and dilution. Had to increase time significantly to get what I like, for example 12 min for 1:1 dilution ISO 100 or 18 min for 1:2 dilution. Delta 100 or FP4+ come out more or less correct with the recommended time, from the same bottle, though.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

No, because the Chinese powder hardly dissolved at up to 30C°. And higher temperatures are absolutely not recommended, as the vitamin C derivative is damaged.

I mix at temps between 20 and 24C, straight out of the tap. Never needed to go higher.But... once I've used up this stash, I won't be using XTol, or that XT-3 substitute, when I can easily mix up XTol-like developers from scratch.

 

[Milpool]

I suggest anyone who has had a problem or thinks something is off with the newer batches contact Photo Systems Inc. with whatever information you can provide.

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kodak.photosys.com

Graphic Chemical Manufacturing | Contact - Dexter, MI

Learn more about our graphic chemical manufacturing for all types of processing solutions. Contact us in Dexter, MI, for more information.

www.photosys.com

 

[Chuck_P]

But... once I've used up this stash, I won't be using XTol, or that XT-3 substitute, when I can easily mix up XTol-like developers from scratch.

I'm stepping into that realm of mixing from dry chemical and am currently waiting for my scale and what I need to mix BT2B. However, I currently do use the packaged XTOL (with no issues so far)..............it may be a topic for another thread but would be interested in trying an XTOL-like developer that you seem to favor, probably would be a good starting point.

 

[xtol121]

I’m curious if anyone on here uses a densitometer when testing or if everyone is eyeballing it off of scans?

I’ve been having a similar issue, not that it’s really an issue if you test for it, for the last year or so with XTOL (Kodak and the eco pro variant). Developing with XTOL 1+1 @ 20°C with inversion agitation every 30s for 400TX in 35mm requires a time of 13m30s to achieve a 1.25 range from zone I thru zone VIII. My base fog is 0.19, I is 0.29, and VIII reads 1.57 (close enough to my 1.25 target). This is considerably longer than the data sheet recommends, but the curves essentially match my old tests (2020) which were done at 10m to achieve the same range. Grain is similar and outside of taking longer everything is great.

I go through a full 5L bag of XTOL every month and XTOL has been this way since at least last summer. I changed darkrooms recently before that and assumed it was just something in the new water, but since I work out new times when I change location or chemistry it didn’t bite me.

Totally understand OP not wanting to test all of the different film stocks, but if you were at 10m and now you’re at 13m30s like me, you could try one other film at 35% longer than your old times and see if it’s on target. If so, you’re probably fine to use that time formula for all other films.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I’m curious if anyone on here uses a densitometer when testing or if everyone is eyeballing it off of scans?

I’ve been having a similar issue, not that it’s really an issue if you test for it, for the last year or so with XTOL (Kodak and the eco pro variant). Developing with XTOL 1+1 @ 20°C with inversion agitation every 30s for 400TX in 35mm requires a time of 13m30s to achieve a 1.25 range from zone I thru zone VIII. My base fog is 0.19, I is 0.29, and VIII reads 1.57 (close enough to my 1.25 target). This is considerably longer than the data sheet recommends, but the curves essentially match my old tests (2020) which were done at 10m to achieve the same range. Grain is similar and outside of taking longer everything is great.

I go through a full 5L bag of XTOL every month and XTOL has been this way since at least last summer. I changed darkrooms recently before that and assumed it was just something in the new water, but since I work out new times when I change location or chemistry it didn’t bite me.

Totally understand OP not wanting to test all of the different film stocks, but if you were at 10m and now you’re at 13m30s like me, you could try one other film at 35% longer than your old times and see if it’s on target. If so, you’re probably fine to use that time formula for all other films.

I use a densitometer. Are you including the base+fog in your readings, or subtracting them?