Freeze Thaw Bad for Film?

[RattyMouse]

A lot of people freeze their film for long term storage. I'm wondering if you freeze and then thaw out the film, should you never freeze it again? Do freeze thaw cycles hurt the emulsions? How about for color and slide films?

Thanks!

 

[jp498]

As long as it's in it's original moisture proof packaging, it is probably OK

 

[L Gebhardt]

I've never had an issue with repeated freeze thaw cycles with any film type. But be aware that if the pack is opened and room temp air is moist it may condense on the film. That will cause issues.

 

[gone]

I think if it were flash frozen and, on the other hand, rapidly heated, there could be issues. But just throwing it into the freezer and then taking it out to return to room temperature before you use it seems to have worked well for people for decades.

 

[Jeff Kubach]

I had no problems with freezing my film.

Jeff

 

[David Lyga]

Freeze and thaw is as dangerous to film as it is to water. Essentially, a non-event. - David Lyga

 

[craygc]

I've had this (there was a url link here which no longer exists). This was all 35mm film and all bought at the same time and same place and all treated the same. What I've found is that the film I had trouble with was film just in their plastic container (trying to reduce storage space); all 35mm film that was frozen as a complete 'brick' (kept in cardboard boxes and sets of 10 in factory cellophane wrapping) have all been good to date.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

As long as the film is kept in its original packaging and are not bare rolls it should be fine.

I could see how 120 rolls outside their cellophane wrapper and 35mm film outside their plastic canisters would not fare well from freezing and thawing.

Let's ask a counter question: Why is it necessary to freeze the film to begin with, especially if you shoot mostly 120 film? If you use it within its expiration date, room temperature should be just fine.

 

[snapguy]

forz

The companies who make frozen foods told the public for years that once thawed, frozen food should never be re-frozen. Later they admitted there was no good basis for this notion -- they merely thought the food might not taste as well frozen and re-frozen. It was a guess on their part. But I suppose the only way to know it to try re-freezing film and see how it comes out.

 

[railwayman3]

As long as it's in it's original moisture proof packaging, it is probably OK

I've never had any problems in freezing my stocks of film, which I've done for probably 25 years. But always in the manufacturers' original sealed packing.

Film for current use is in door of the fridge, in its cartons. "Reserve" stock is in the freezer, in sealed plastic boxes. I don't freeze/unfreeze unnecessarily.

 

[railwayman3]

The companies who make frozen foods told the public for years that once thawed, frozen food should never be re-frozen. Later they admitted there was no good basis for this notion -- they merely thought the food might not taste as well frozen and re-frozen. It was a guess on their part. But I suppose the only way to know it to try re-freezing film and see how it comes out.

Not sure that you can compare film with food. Most food "goes off" in a few days at room temperature, film lasts for years in any normal storage conditions..

I'm told by a refrigeration engineer that the practice of re-freezing after thawing is not recommended as the food "ages" and bacteria can develop, and the original "use by" date is no longer valid. Once might not be a health risk (although flavor may be affected), but if the packages were inadvertently thawed and refrozen several times, there is a definite risk.

 

[RattyMouse]

As long as the film is kept in its original packaging and are not bare rolls it should be fine.

I could see how 120 rolls outside their cellophane wrapper and 35mm film outside their plastic canisters would not fare well from freezing and thawing.

Let's ask a counter question: Why is it necessary to freeze the film to begin with, especially if you shoot mostly 120 film? If you use it within its expiration date, room temperature should be just fine.

I just bought some expired film (Astia) that has been frozen. Getting it to me will of course thaw it. Should I refreeze it?

 

[RattyMouse]

I've never had any problems in freezing my stocks of film, which I've done for probably 25 years. But always in the manufacturers' original sealed packing.

Film for current use is in door of the fridge, in its cartons. "Reserve" stock is in the freezer, in sealed plastic boxes. I don't freeze/unfreeze unnecessarily.

The question is not about freezing film. The question is about RE-freezing film. Freeze/thaw cycles involve therm expansion. I am asking does this expansion damage the emulsions on film at all. If so, how many cycles is too many?

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

I just bought some expired film (Astia) that has been frozen. Getting it to me will of course thaw it. Should I refreeze it?

Got it. I think that depends on how quickly you plan on using it. If it were me I'd use expired film as quickly as possible. But if you intend to keep it several years it might be worthwhile to freeze.

I usually don't use expired film anymore, but realize some people have obsolete films that they love, so if I had to freeze film I would make sure they are in their original packaging. 120 film outside their plastic wrappers I would always be suspicious of and test before using for anything important. In their wrapper I would use double resealable plastic bags, with as much air evacuated from them as possible, to store the film in while in the freezer. I would put many smaller bags inside one large bag, so that I could remove only a small amount from the freezer at a time.

 

[lhalcong]

I shot 24 frames, then I froze the film in its canister. but I still have 12 frames I plan on shoot later on. I have to gather 12 rolls of E-6 before I can process (because I also shoot negatives and digital depending on the case, it could easily be a year when I am done with 12).., so I plan to throw it back in the freezer after I shoot the remaining frames. Ok with that ? I was told that better in the refrigerator .

 

[Sirius Glass]

The question is not about freezing film. The question is about RE-freezing film. Freeze/thaw cycles involve therm expansion. I am asking does this expansion damage the emulsions on film at all. If so, how many cycles is too many?

I have had no problems refreezing film as long as the sealed foil or container has not been opened. If the foil or container has been opened then I do not refreeze the film. Instead I keep it in the refrigerator in a zip lock bag.

 

[winger]

Got it. I think that depends on how quickly you plan on using it. If it were me I'd use expired film as quickly as possible. But if you intend to keep it several years it might be worthwhile to freeze.

I usually don't use expired film anymore, but realize some people have obsolete films that they love, so if I had to freeze film I would make sure they are in their original packaging. 120 film outside their plastic wrappers I would always be suspicious of and test before using for anything important. In their wrapper I would use double resealable plastic bags, with as much air evacuated from them as possible, to store the film in while in the freezer. I would put many smaller bags inside one large bag, so that I could remove only a small amount from the freezer at a time.

I do this, too. And the bags help to bulk it up a little in case I want to hide chocolate under them in the freezer (about the only place that's safe in this house). The bags also help to keep different kinds or sizes separate (35mm vs 120 and B&W vs color).
I have refrozen 120 in its wrapper and it's been fine. I bought a bunch of 120 that someone in the photo club had kept frozen. It thawed in the mail, of course, then I froze it. Once a roll is out, I try to use it soon, but that isn't always likely. If I really overestimate how much I need and I know I won't be shooting it all within a month or so, I'll toss it back in. But I usually label it and keep it separate and it's the first used the next time.

 

[railwayman3]

The question is not about freezing film. The question is about RE-freezing film. Freeze/thaw cycles involve therm expansion. I am asking does this expansion damage the emulsions on film at all. If so, how many cycles is too many?

My answer did refer, inter alia, to RE-freezing film, insofar as I said that I don't do it unnecessarily. Hopefully I avoid any risk of damage which this might cause.

But why are you worrying about how many cycles are too many ; surely the only time that you would need to refreeze would be to defrost the freezer, perhaps every 2-3 years, and that will certainly not damage the film. Again, as I said, my current film is in the fridge, and I don't need to raid the reserve stock in the freezer until I'm ready to transfer some film to the fridge or my gadget bag ready to use. Can't see any problem? (As my old college tutor said "there's enough real problems in the world to worry about without wasting time inventing any more " )

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

My answer did refer, inter alia, to RE-freezing film, insofar as I said that I don't do it unnecessarily. Hopefully I avoid any risk of damage which this might cause.

But why are you worrying about how many cycles are too many ; surely the only time that you would need to refreeze would be to defrost the freezer, perhaps every 2-3 years, and that will certainly not damage the film. Again, as I said, my current film is in the fridge, and I don't need to raid the reserve stock in the freezer until I'm ready to transfer some film to the fridge or my gadget bag ready to use. Can't see any problem? (As my old college tutor said "there's enough real problems in the world to worry about without wasting time inventing any more " )

I don't worry at all!
I frequently remove from freezer and re-freeze anything I have not used after a road trip (during which a third of reserve stock comes with me). I have been doing this for more than 30 years, starting with Kodachrome in 1978. Pinholing of emulsion occasionally may occur due to high humidity or movement between very cold and warm environments.

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

I've never had an issue. The important thing is to let the film warm up before taking it out of the canister or unwrapping it to avoid condensation. It's more important to do so in humid environments.

 

[cliveh]

Why freeze film at all? Refrigeration is quite sufficient for colour film and for black & white, why bother?

 

[railwayman3]

Why freeze film at all? Refrigeration is quite sufficient for colour film and for black & white, why bother?

I agree for all general purposes ; just that I have a large stock of discontinued films (Pan-X, Plus-X, Ektachrome, IR, Efke, etc.), which I hope will last me as long as I am able to carry on my hobby, (which, D.V., will hopefully mean that my expiry date will be well beyond the expiry dates of the films).

 

[Sirius Glass]

Why freeze film at all? Refrigeration is quite sufficient for colour film and for black & white, why bother?

For long time periods freezing is better.

 

[Simon R Galley]

Dear All,

Having looked at this thread I thought it worthwhile to venture downstairs to visit our technical service department.

We have conducted a series of tests over the years on the 'preservation' by temperature of film and paper emulsions.

So they say.....

Freezing or refridgerating film ( or paper ) is beneficial to the preservation of the film ( or paper ) and its performance.

They have no evidence that freezing is better than refridgeration.

Once film has been stored in a refrigerator or freezer and then removed it should NOT be refrozen
or refrigerated.

Film at all times should be protected from moisture in the original packaging and preferably some
additional protection such as a freezer ziplock bag.

Film once removed from freezing or refridgeration, thawed and exposed should not be re-
refrigerated or re-frozen and should be processed promptly.

Thawing from frozen takes at least 24 hours, as a rule of thumb the same timescale should be
used for refridgerated film.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited

 

[Xmas]

If you are defrosting the freezer you need cardboard boxes to hand preferable doubles you dump all the food in the boxes in bin liners seal the inner and outer boxes and leave the freezer door open... I normally use a fan heater to speed up thaw.

Double layer of dry corrugated cardboard good insulator

Never put film in freezer...